8
   

morality, drugs, existence

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 08:56 am
@carnaticmystery,
carnaticmystery wrote:

Quote:
i only deny my existence in an ABSOLUTE sense.

Quote:
And you could be absolutely wrong but apparently, this never crossed your absence of mind.

umm yes it has numerous times. the question 'does anything exist' is the sole question i have been trying to answer for years now, these are the conclusions coming out.

with the same authority that you say 'i experience that i definitely exist', i am saying that 'i experience that i definitely may or may not exist, and that question will be infinitely unanswerable, therefore there is no absolute reality or existence, in my opinion.'


I must admire your wording here, CM. You are coming around nicely.

But your reasoning is way off.

The fact that you "experience that you may or may not exist" does not lead to "there is no absolute reality" in any way whatsoever.

All it can lead to is: There may or may not be an absolute reality.

Think about it...you will see that to be the case.
carnaticmystery
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 08:56 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
And we don't need proof for it's existence: we get every day when we are conscious of our thoughts. That's proof enough for me.

it is proof enough for you now, because you refuse to question further. the intellect will naturally seek expansion, and you will eventually question further, as will frank apisa and everyone else who rejects non-duality. haha..

Quote:
But if consciousness is a sense, like I think it is, then it follows that it involves a mechanism to extract information from its object, for instance that one part of the brain can 'hear' what another part is thinking.

perhaps read some medical books before just guessing how the body works. keep guessing about consciousness, nobody can explain it. the auditory centre in the brain receives signals from the ear. the way you 'hear' thought is unexplained, but the auditory centre in the brain appears stimulated under imaging. so the conjecture is that consciousness is able to 'imagine' a sound by stimulating that section of the brain spontaneously. this conjecture is completely unproven by medical science. i am not arguing with it per se, i am proving the absolute primary nature of consciousness itself, with no science to back it up.

to say that proof isn't needed is naive, it only comes from accepting this entire reality as it is spoonfed to you by others. the only way to figure things out yourself is to investigate your own consciousness completely, and truly figure out for yourself.
Quote:
Science is very ignorant of these things, it's true, but ignorance doesn't prove an an absence of material causes to the mind. It just means we don't know yet.

yes, i don't doubt science will eventually prove consciousness in some tiny particles, who cares? my point is that right now, by your own investigation, you can find out much more about consciousness than science ever can.
Quote:
What do you think creates the mind? Magic? What's the damn purpose of non-dualism if you can't even resolve that the mind is materially supported rather than magically different from matter?

THESE questions are exactly what non dualism attempts to resolve. you cannot determine how your own mind appears to exist, so you continuously try and figure it out. non dualism does resolve everything as an appearance. dualism insists on some absolute reality.
Quote:
I'm not the confused one here. Your consciousness is far far from infinite. Smile it's only turning around in circles, like the dog chasing his tail...

both mine, yours, and ALL HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS is infinite, because it is experienced as such by everyone. everything about your current experience is infinite, right now. star light from light years away from earth is able to reach your eyesight. there is no theoretical limit to any of your senses, everything is infinite. if you want to believe i am 'chasing my tail', what do i care? i am doing whatever i want, you don't have to respond..
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 08:57 am
@carnaticmystery,
carnaticmystery wrote:

Quote:
And we don't need proof for it's existence: we get every day when we are conscious of our thoughts. That's proof enough for me.

it is proof enough for you now, because you refuse to question further. the intellect will naturally seek expansion, and you will eventually question further, as will frank apisa and everyone else who rejects non-duality. haha..


Grow up, CM.

At no point in this conversation have I ever rejected non-duality.

carnaticmystery
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 09:13 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Yeah...when Christians get desperate, they often go into confused, rambling like this, CM.

there was nothing confused about anything i have ever said. i am not christian. i do not consider it an insult to be called christian, or any religion, or any other insult you can think up.
Quote:
I must say that for someone who is convinced there is no YOU...you certainly put a lot of emphasis on what you guess (or believe.)

yes. i put 100% emphasis on the ME that appears, because it is everything. whatever appears is me. and whatever appears is also entirely questionable and not absolutely real. therefore, i don't absolutely exist. simple stuff, you will catch on eventually.
carnaticmystery
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 09:15 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
CM...

...by now even you should realize that this "notion" of yours needs a lot more baking.

Put it back in the oven for a while. Maybe it will make more sense...and you won't have to try all those dodges.

i have no 'notion'. none of them are 'my notions', but accepted notions in humanity for centuries. i was trying to discuss non duality, reality etc with hopefully intelligent people. . i succeeded with some people, failed with others. oh well.
carnaticmystery
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 09:18 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I must admire your wording here, CM. You are coming around nicely.

you have admired the wording of every phrase i have written. when it intimidates you, you revolt and pretend that i am confused/rambling/bad at english. sometimes, for a change, you admit that you admire it.

Quote:
But your reasoning is way off.

The fact that you "experience that you may or may not exist" does not lead to "there is no absolute reality" in any way whatsoever.

All it can lead to is: There may or may not be an absolute reality.

Think about it...you will see that to be the case.

ok sir. thinking about it now....and....nope it still leads to no absolute reality. why? because 'there may or may not be an absolute reality' is not an end point. if you make it your end point, then congrats to you. but naturally, you will eventually seek the answer, and find it.

it is not a thought or an understanding or concept that there is no 'absolute reality'. it is an intuition about your own experience. you actually experience that its only absolute reality is how much you give it, with belief.
carnaticmystery
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 09:20 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Grow up, CM.

At no point in this conversation have I ever rejected non-duality

ok congrats, you don't accept or reject anything.

except your idiotic assumptions: 'there is an absolute reality', 'absolute reality is 'what is is''.

which gets you to ...ok cool. now what? i want to find out more about reality now...and eventually...my position.

non duality is not really a position, but a definite end result for consciousness.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 10:39 am
@carnaticmystery,
I don't care about death but I do care about living a good life. I tried what you're trying, a long time ago, and it didn't work. So go ahead and make your own mistakes, but you should know better than peddle nihilism to depressive people... Playing with your own mental health is one thing; endangering others' is totally irresponsible.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 11:06 am
@carnaticmystery,
Quote:
both mine, yours, and ALL HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS is infinite

Infinite yet inexistent... Makes no sense. I go for existent but finite.

Quote:
to say that proof isn't needed is naive, it only comes from accepting this entire reality as it is spoonfed to you by others. the only way to figure things out yourself is to investigate your own consciousness completely, and truly figure out for yourself.

Lol... I think it's very naïve to ask for absolute proof in philosophy. Logical proof can work, at least for those who, unlike you, haven't jettisoned logic yet... I also think it is quite naïve to assume out of the blue that consciousness can "investigate itself completely". That's a very weak assumption. We are not not necessarily transparent to ourselves.

You're turning out as a simplistic mind, who thinks highly of itself all the while pretending not to exist... Amusing.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 01:34 pm
@carnaticmystery,
Quote:
were YOU the one hungry and scared, or just watching others?

I don't scare easily, but I got hungry and occasionally scared, yes.

Quote:
i am not arguing that the tendency to philosophize about life and reality is not born out of a lavish life where basic survival is already met.

That's not what I am saying. Poor and hungry people do philosophy too. What I am saying is that a particular strand of vacuous, facile and pointless philosophy -- typified by questions such as: does absolute reality exist? -- tends to come out of bored people who have too much time on their hand and too few contacts with reality.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 01:49 pm
@carnaticmystery,
carnaticmystery wrote:

Quote:
Yeah...when Christians get desperate, they often go into confused, rambling like this, CM.

there was nothing confused about anything i have ever said. i am not christian. i do not consider it an insult to be called christian, or any religion, or any other insult you can think up.
Quote:
I must say that for someone who is convinced there is no YOU...you certainly put a lot of emphasis on what you guess (or believe.)

yes. i put 100% emphasis on the ME that appears, because it is everything. whatever appears is me. and whatever appears is also entirely questionable and not absolutely real. therefore, i don't absolutely exist. simple stuff, you will catch on eventually.


I didn't say you were Christian...I merely pointed out that when Christians get desperate, they often go into confused rambling...such as you are doing here.

MY GUESS: You have no idea if you "absolutely exist" or not. You are making guesses about REALITY...and you do not have the ethical wherewithal to acknowledge that all you are doing is guessing.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 01:50 pm
@carnaticmystery,
carnaticmystery wrote:

Quote:
CM...

...by now even you should realize that this "notion" of yours needs a lot more baking.

Put it back in the oven for a while. Maybe it will make more sense...and you won't have to try all those dodges.

i have no 'notion'. none of them are 'my notions', but accepted notions in humanity for centuries. i was trying to discuss non duality, reality etc with hopefully intelligent people. . i succeeded with some people, failed with others. oh well.


Yeah, you have notions...the snake oil you are trying, unsuccessfully, to sell here.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 01:54 pm
@carnaticmystery,
carnaticmystery wrote:

Quote:
I must admire your wording here, CM. You are coming around nicely.

you have admired the wording of every phrase i have written.


Most assuredly I have not. In fact, most of what you write causes me to snicker.


Quote:
...when it intimidates you, you revolt and pretend that i am confused/rambling/bad at english. sometimes, for a change, you admit that you admire it.


In fairness to people who are "bad at English"...you are not "bad at English." You would have to improve to reach that level. I wish you luck with that. Your presentations would be easier to understand if it happens.



Quote:
But your reasoning is way off.

The fact that you "experience that you may or may not exist" does not lead to "there is no absolute reality" in any way whatsoever.

All it can lead to is: There may or may not be an absolute reality.

Think about it...you will see that to be the case.

ok sir. thinking about it now....and....nope it still leads to no absolute reality. why? because 'there may or may not be an absolute reality' is not an end point. if you make it your end point, then congrats to you. but naturally, you will eventually seek the answer, and find it. [/quote]

Think about it again, CM. You still are coming to an illogical result. But you may eventually get it if you work at it.

Quote:
it is not a thought or an understanding or concept that there is no 'absolute reality'. it is an intuition about your own experience. you actually experience that its only absolute reality is how much you give it, with belief.


Once again you are asserting that the absolute reality is that there is no absolute reality. Don't you ever learn?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 01:56 pm
@carnaticmystery,
carnaticmystery wrote:

Quote:
Grow up, CM.

At no point in this conversation have I ever rejected non-duality

ok congrats, you don't accept or reject anything.


When you grow up...if you grow up...you will be able to respond to something like this by simply acknowledging that you were wrong.


Quote:
except your idiotic assumptions: 'there is an absolute reality', 'absolute reality is 'what is is''.


Whatever IS...IS. And that is the REALITY.

Quote:
which gets you to ...ok cool. now what? i want to find out more about reality now...and eventually...my position.

non duality is not really a position, but a definite end result for consciousness.


You are one of the worst things to happen to the non-duality argument in A2K, CM. You slaughter it.
carnaticmystery
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 08:09 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
I don't care about death but I do care about living a good life. I tried what you're trying, a long time ago, and it didn't work. So go ahead and make your own mistakes, but you should know better than peddle nihilism to depressive people... Playing with your own mental health is one thing; endangering others' is totally irresponsible.

i'm not trying anything, i'm describing my own experience and opinions. as i said, you live in fear of mental illness, death etc. so enjoy your limited life.
carnaticmystery
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 08:11 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Lol... I think it's very naïve to ask for absolute proof in philosophy. Logical proof can work, at least for those who, unlike you, haven't jettisoned logic yet... I also think it is quite naïve to assume out of the blue that consciousness can "investigate itself completely". That's a very weak assumption. We are not not necessarily transparent to ourselves.

You're turning out as a simplistic mind, who thinks highly of itself all the while pretending not to exist... Amusing.

it is not naive to ask for proof of anything, it is the natural process of intelligence. if somebody tells you they built a flying car, you will not believe it until you see proof. same way, if i tell you you don't exist, you won't believe it until you feel proof. you can first sit around and say 'no i don't need any proof,' until you realise that you do need it.

i am not saying proof is possible. i am saying the eventual seeking of proof is unavoidable. when you seek it enough, you find it paradoxically by finding nothing.
carnaticmystery
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 08:13 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
That's not what I am saying. Poor and hungry people do philosophy too. What I am saying is that a particular strand of vacuous, facile and pointless philosophy -- typified by questions such as: does absolute reality exist? -- tends to come out of bored people who have too much time on their hand and too few contacts with reality.

complete nonsense. the question 'does absolute reality exist' is one of the foremost questions discussed among prominent philosophers, spiritualists, scientists and many others. to think that this specific question is vacuous and facile is idiotic.
carnaticmystery
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 08:14 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
MY GUESS: You have no idea if you "absolutely exist" or not. You are making guesses about REALITY...and you do not have the ethical wherewithal to acknowledge that all you are doing is guessing.

everything anybody ever 'thinks', 'knows', 'feels', 'intuits', 'understands' is ultimately nothing more than a 'guess', as you say.
so there goes your idiotic theory, i am acknowledging for the millionth time that everything is a guess. does not mean i won't have conviction in my guess.
carnaticmystery
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 08:17 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
You are one of the worst things to happen to the non-duality argument in A2K, CM. You slaughter it.


if i slaughter any argument, then i am not the worst thing but the best thing. i have already explained earlier that the intellect naturally destroys (slaughters) anything in its path, when it is completely unleashed.

right now your intellect is neatly leashed to the dumbass post, labelled 'i assume a reality and therefore limit my own intellect to idiocy!!!!'
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Dec, 2013 09:00 pm
@carnaticmystery,
carnaticmystery wrote:

Quote:
MY GUESS: You have no idea if you "absolutely exist" or not. You are making guesses about REALITY...and you do not have the ethical wherewithal to acknowledge that all you are doing is guessing.

everything anybody ever 'thinks', 'knows', 'feels', 'intuits', 'understands' is ultimately nothing more than a 'guess', as you say.
so there goes your idiotic theory, i am acknowledging for the millionth time that everything is a guess. does not mean i won't have conviction in my guess.


Then stop making proclamations.

Is there truth?

Does anything exist?

Do you exist?

If you have any answer to these questions that deviate from "I DO NOT KNOW"...you are kidding both us and yourself.
0 Replies
 
 

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