The number of quantity

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Years ago I posted a question on the site concerning the phrase a million-dollar smile. I got very good answers to the question from users of the site.

I teach English in China. Teachers here are abnormally interested in some grammar issues. In this post I hope to get replies from native users of English.

Look at the following questions. Which verb is appropriate in each sentence, the singular is or the plural are?

A large quantity of apples is/are…
Large quantities of apples is/are…
A large quantity of water is/are…
Large quantities of water is/are…

Thanks in advance.

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Type: Question • Score: 4 • Views: 5,004 • Replies: 102

@shengliver,

As a general grammatical rule:
"quantity" takes "is"
"quantities" takes "are"
You may be confusing this issue with that of collective nouns such as "government" with which either singular plural verb forms are usually acceptable.

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@shengliver,

A large quantity of apples is..
But it's a technicality. Collo would probably favor "are"

Large quantities of apples are…
No q here

A large quantity of water is
…because of course we're still in the singular

Large quantities of water are…
Of course we're back to the plural. However if it's all collecting in one basin and from there inundating a small city, collo might permit "is". Only however as a rarity

Thanks to Fres incidentally. After a lifetime in the field of journ I wasn't even consciously aware of such dual usage. I have to give credit to a2k, attracting such erudition

1 Reply

@dalehileman,

Yes.

From a psycholinguistic point of view rather than a prescriptive grammatical one, we clearly have temporal dynamics acting in sentence production and perception. Thus the temporal proximity of "apples" (plural) to the verb, can have a dynamic effect on the selection or accceptability of the plural verb form over the singular one implied by "a quantity" (singular).

Also there are other dynamic processes when sentences are placed in contrast with each other, as in the presentatation above, since the dynamics of a contrastive situation differ markedly from the temporal constraints of real performance.

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@fresco,

Wow Fres you're a credit to a2k and its many esl's

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@dalehileman,

Given that most ESLs are looking for a "quick fix", it is unlikely that they would wish to follow the intricacies of "performance". But thank you for your comments.

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@fresco,

Quote:

From a psycholinguistic point of view rather than a prescriptive grammatical one, we clearly have temporal dynamics acting in sentence production and perception. Thus the temporal proximity of "apples" (plural) to the verb, can have a dynamic effect on the selection or accceptability of the plural verb form over the singular one implied by "a quantity" (singular).

That seems to me to be nuts.
But I'm sometimes wrong.

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You may be confusing "quantity" with "number."

A number of apples are in the bowl.
The number of apples changes daily.

Generally, a number are, and the number is.

1 Reply

@fresco,

fresco wrote:

Yes.

From a psycholinguistic point of view rather than a prescriptive grammatical one, we clearly have temporal dynamics acting in sentence production and perception. Thus the temporal proximity of "apples" (plural) to the verb, can have a dynamic effect on the selection or accceptability of the plural verb form over the singular one implied by "a quantity" (singular).

That may well be, but it is logically and grammatically incorrect anyway.

Falling into error in logic or in grammar is no better
than your errors of calculation in math; there are no excuses for error.

David

1 Reply

I suggest those dissenting to my psycholinguistic point as a reponse specifically to dalehileman should read my first post to shengliver. There is a difference in intent and context of those responses. I also suggest those who do not understand that point should (a)investigate the distinction Chomsky draws between linguistic "competence" and "performance" and also (b) investigate the concepts of "different Englishes" and "language as fashion" to be found in general works such as Crystal's Encyclopedia of Language.

I have made the point before that artficial contrastive grammatical analysis, as presented by questioners here, departs from real life (context specific) communicative needs.

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@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

...there are no excuses for error

Oh dear ! Transgressors will no doubt be shot ! Wink

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@fresco,

fresco wrote:

I suggest those dissenting to my psycholinguistic point as a reponse specifically to dalehileman should read my first post to shengliver. There is a difference in intent and context of those responses. I also suggest those who do not understand that point should (a)investigate the distinction Chomsky draws between linguistic "competence" and "performance" and also (b) investigate the concepts of "different Englishes" and "language as fashion" to be found in general works such as Crystal's Encyclopedia of Language.

I have made the point before that artficial contrastive grammatical analysis, as presented by questioners here, departs from real life (context specific) communicative needs.

People can and do make innumerable errors.
That fact does not change those errors rendering them accurate,
no matter what anyone writes in an Encyclopedia.
I can grab an encyclopedia and write in it that the Moon is made
of green cheese; that has no effect upon the composition of the Moon,
regardless of any "different Englishes" or "fashions".

If someone writes that 3 times 7 is 25,
that is worthless error, regardless of "intent" or of "context".

David

1 Reply

@fresco,

Writing psycholinguistic babble in response to a direct and fairly simple question might furrow a few brows and please its author mightily, but generally it generates more heat than light.

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@McTag,

Your metaphor is inappropriate. Ironically, I think it was the linguist David Crystal (op cit) who pointed out that native speakers often get "hot under the collar" when they are challenged on their simplistic assumptions about the workings of their "own" language. Denigrating the cognitive dynamics of communication as "psychobabble" merely underscores that point. Maybe reading such a good "brow unfurrowing" book would be an alternative to dismissive repostes.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

....where (linguistic)ignorance is bliss, rtc..... Laughing

1 Reply

@fresco,

Fair enough. I don't understand it, apparently. I do wonder about the wisdom, though, of answering a straightforward question from a foreigner with sub-Pinkerian academic-speak.

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@McTag,

Sorry, I forget to add that this is supposed to be a forum of "experts". In that respect, I have clearly delineated the difference between the nature of my initial response to an ESL enquiry and my secondary one to those interested in linguistic dynamics. .

1 Reply

@fresco,

fresco wrote:

I forget to add that this is supposed to be a forum of "experts".

and wrote:

In that respect, I have clearly delineated the difference between the nature of response to an ESL enquiry and that to those interested in linguistic dynamics.

I highly doubt that Dale is either an expert of any sort or that he simply understands linguistic dynamics...

2 Replies

@timur,

A spirit of inquiry of individual members is perhaps more important than a claim to "expertise". Indeed often, the function of the "expert" is perhaps to guide members in their search by mapping out the territory rather than to provide a definitive answer.

2 Replies

@fresco,

A crystal clear explanation. Thanks.

0 Replies

The number of quantity

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