Deliver us from Democrats

Scrat wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
For instance those who see our president as perfect in every word and action simply haven't paid attention.

Do you actually believe these people exist? Do you know of one?

From their postings, BWShooter, Perception (gone), Tarantulas, Italgato (gone), Tantor (resurrected as Not Tantor), etc....

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Foxfyre wrote:

I wonder if there would be a list of writers/columnists/authors/commentators/talk show host etc. that both the left and right in this forum would accept as credible and acceptable?

That could be a good idea for a new thread.

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hobitbob wrote:

Scrat wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
For instance those who see our president as perfect in every word and action simply haven't paid attention.

Do you actually believe these people exist? Do you know of one?

From their postings, BWShooter, Perception (gone), Tarantulas, Italgato (gone), Tantor (resurrected as Not Tantor), etc....

I never said our President was perfect. I never said ANYONE was perfect.

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Your postings imply this.

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Scrat wrote:

Quote:

For instance those who see our president as perfect in every word and action simply haven't paid attention. (--Foxfyre)

Quote:

Do you actually believe these people exist? Do you know of one? I don't. Nor do I think I know anyone who didn't recognize that Clinton was a fallible man, whether they liked him, voted for him, whatever.

These charicatures of people aren't real people, and I don't know any real people who resemble them. If you do, you might want to travel in different circles.(--Scrat)

Do I know any personally? No I don't. Okay I have one brother-in-law who thought/thinks Clinton is perfect, but he's pretty old and he's the only one.

I had in mind some of the posts I've seen in these forums over the last several years to the present. There are some, for example, who seem obsessed with painting GWB and anyone who supports or is associated with him as the devil incarnate. They put post after post after post out there as 'proof'--sometimes a half dozen or more posts all on the same subject. They can't or won't acknowledge anything that GWB has done right or well. Since their posts are the only evidence we have of their position, I have to figure they are in the blind prejudice camp.

I disagree with hobitbob, however, that that those who defend the president and/or his staff on a specific issue are the same so long as they can give a credible reason or argument for their support. I also respect the opinions of those who criticize GWB or his staff, etc. if they can give a credible reason or argument for their criticism.

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hobitbob wrote:

Your postings imply this.

I'm a conservative. Perhaps that clouds your perception of my postings.

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Scrat wrote:

If you are right, then Air America Radio should immediately begin raking in butt-loads of money and drawing a huge listenership, since they are unfettered by this evil conspiracy of conservative radio station owners who would rather lose money that let liberal voices be heard.

That's impossible because the conservative station owners won't put any of the programs on. The shows have to be heard to make money. I know I can't get that network in my town. I can get hanity though. Go figure.

There's a market for progressive radio. There's a lot of people that want to listen to it but can't because all they have is conservative talk stations in their city. I know for a fact these station owners are terrified of the FCC and the FCC seems to have it in for talk show hosts that aren't conservative.

There's no such thing as Radio Free America. You can only say what you want if you're a conservative.

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But Kickycan, in the quote you used, Hannity is NOT lumping all liberals together. He specifically referenced the leadership of the modern Democrat party. And in all honesty, who do you see these people criticizing besides George W. Bush and his administration? And who's position do they use to justify their position? They refer to France, Germany, Russia etc., anybody who is NOT in the coalition.

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Foxfyre, I already responded to the question of him lumping all liberals together. You might have a point about who he's attacking in that quote, but the problem with his rhetoric (and I'm now talking about his radio show, his TV show, etc.) is that he has his mind made up about every issue beforehand. There is nothing that a liberal can say or do that he will ever consider without first sending it through his little conservative filter. Maybe he honestly believes what he says, but I see that as on par with being a zealot.

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Hmm, thinking about what Kickycan said about a 'mind being made up'. Well first, on Hannity's television show, which is what most of us are most familiar with, he was hired to be the right wing voice while Alan Combes was hired to be the left wing voice. That's what they are supposed to do there.

Alan Combes some years ago had the most successful liberal radio talk show that I've heard and it did have a lot of stations and was run in prime time. Eventually he became so hateful in his comments most of his advertisers dropped him. I did listen to him regularly though I was sometimes throwing shoes at the radio.

This is one of the problems. To a conservative listening to Hannity & Combes, it is Combes who sounds like the unreasonable, mean spirited and contentious one. And I have no doubt that to a liberal, Hannity sounds like the unreasonable, mean spirited and contentious one. And this surely comes from our personal bias.

But I cannot fault anyone who holds and defends a firm opinion so long as he or she has an intelligent rationale for it. ("Bush sucks" is NOT a rationale in my opinion.) And whether or not I agree with them, I respect reasonable people of passion and conviction.

For instance, I do not share politics and rarely agree with Molly Ivans, but I do appreciate that she explains her position generally without getting contentious and insulting. I adore William Raspberry, my very favorite liberal ever, because the man is a man of conviction with reasoned and informed opinions and he has the audacity to actually speak out when he thinks the liberal camp gets it wrong on something.

We need more of that on both sides.

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roverroad wrote:

Scrat wrote:
If you are right, then Air America Radio should immediately begin raking in butt-loads of money and drawing a huge listenership, since they are unfettered by this evil conspiracy of conservative radio station owners who would rather lose money that let liberal voices be heard.

That's impossible because the conservative station owners won't put any of the programs on. The shows have to be heard to make money. I know I can't get that network in my town. I can get hanity though. Go figure.

Watch out! There's a black helicopter behind you! I think it's the GOP! Laughing

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It doesn't require a conspiracy theory to have a concern about the consolidation of radio stations under a handful of huge corporations. Just think of it in terms of how the righties like to wail about liberal control of Hollywood...

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The reason liberal radio has such a tough time of it is that liberal political theology is so difficult to define.

I think one of the reasons liberals despise conservatives is because many conservatives are so certain about the convictions they hold and can explain why they hold them--this is even apart from the political propaganda that conservatives hate free speech, want the poor to stay poor, attack human rights, are heartless, mean spirited, selfish, greedy, money-grubbing, destroyers of the environment, etc. etc. etc. yadda yadda.

Liberals I think are uncomfortable with absolutes. Nobody can be 'as sure' about things as conservatives purport to be. As a result, liberal radio quickly dissolves into conservative bashing with little or nothing to support why their position is superior. And that makes it boring. And that loses it listeners. And that costs it advertisers. So the liberal talk show goes away.

NPR would have gone away a long time ago if it wasn't supported by the government. But you can get it just about anywhere in the USA and there is nothing, zero, nada conservative about it.

Remember that Rush Limbaugh was once on one radio station. Now he has the #1 share across the country. Whatever you think of Rush, he couldn't have accomplished that if a lot of people didn't want to tune into his program.

All the liberals have to do to break the conservative 'advantage' is to put something that is more interesting, positive, and entertaining out there.

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Foxfyre is not too far off the mark in that analysis. Expounding on "Either you're with us or against us" and so forth is a heck of a lot easier than looking at a problem in all its complexity.

Unfortunately, the current situation in Iraq being a perfect example, most problems are complex and aren't solve with approach that's currently in vogue...

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Scrat wrote:

mesquite - Okay, if your complaint is with Hannity's "black and white" morals, give me an example of espousing "grey-scale" morals that doesn't ultimately amount to holding to no morality at all.

I didn't say just black and white, What I said was:

Quote:

No, it is not that he sees the world in terms of morals that makes him a whack-job (your term). A moral code is a necessary part of any civilized society. It is that he sees the world in terms of black and white (good and evil) morals dredged from the OT.

When he starts framing everything in terms of good and evil, god and the devil, then to me he begins to sound more like a preacher and I just automatically switch on my BS filter.

To answer your question though, I would assume that any moral value has shades of gray and needs to be ranked in importance against other morals where there are conflicts. Just because I may have told my children that the tooth fairy exchanged their tooth for a quarter during the night does not carry the same weight as filtering intelligence to bolster a plan for war.

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Foxfyre wrote:

The reason liberal radio has such a tough time of it is that liberal political theology is so difficult to define.

I think one of the reasons liberals despise conservatives is because many conservatives are so certain about the convictions they hold and can explain why they hold them--this is even apart from the political propaganda that conservatives hate free speech, want the poor to stay poor, attack human rights, are heartless, mean spirited, selfish, greedy, money-grubbing, destroyers of the environment, etc. etc. etc. yadda yadda.

Liberals I think are uncomfortable with absolutes. Nobody can be 'as sure' about things as conservatives purport to be. As a result, liberal radio quickly dissolves into conservative bashing with little or nothing to support why their position is superior. And that makes it boring. And that loses it listeners. And that costs it advertisers. So the liberal talk show goes away.

All the liberals have to do to break the conservative 'advantage' is to put something that is more interesting, positive, and entertaining out there.

Good grief Foxfyre, don't you realize that there is NOTHING more entertaining than bashing liberals. Just look at the lineup on this local station. Nothing but 24 hour liberal bashing. And those are just the small time conservative hosts. That station cannot afford Rush Limbaugh and Michael Savage. It is what I listen to on the commute to work in the morning. It gets the heart pumping better than a shot of Turkish coffee. Just look at the liberal bashing in your own post here. I can tell you are having a ball Very Happy

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Foxfyre wrote:

I think one of the reasons liberals despise conservatives is because many conservatives are so certain about the convictions they hold and can explain why they hold them

Liberals I think are uncomfortable with absolutes. quote]
BINGO! Libs are terrified of the truth. Instead, they want to brainwash the public into thinking their way is the only way. I support Rush, Hannity, Michael Savage and Tony Snow. These are men who tell the truth, regardless of popular opinion.

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WEll I dont know about Limbaugh and Hannity but I like Savage. He isnt ALWAYS on the conservative sides of things. He has his own mind htough that mind tends to be conservative.

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El-Diablo wrote:

WEll I dont know about Limbaugh and Hannity but I like Savage. He isnt ALWAYS on the conservative sides of things. He has his own mind htough that mind tends to be conservative.

The last idea of his that I heard Savage express (just before pushing the station button) was his solution for the Fallujah problem. Block the exits and level it. He is a shock jock pure and simple, overly enamored with himself, but he does know how to make money by appealing to emotions.

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Foxfyre wrote:

The reason liberal radio has such a tough time of it is that liberal political theology is so difficult to define.

Actually, I would argue that it is not difficult to define, it's just difficult to support, once defined. (See Sowell quote, below.)

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