God...why would he not show his face or an miracle to save millions!

@neologist,

No, not that. I'd have been stoned with rocks.

0 Replies

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

I hate to get away from Romeo bashing, as much fun as it may be.
But, Frank.
Even nominal christians like Romeo do not follow the law. But the law is still of the utmost importance because it highlights God's standards and focuses attention on the life and work of Jesus. By fulfilling every aspect of the law, he was able to remove its rule over us.

A good thing, too. I'd have been stoned as a teenager for sure.

Romeo is fun...and I actually appreciate his running into brick walls to entertain us.

Anyway...I have given (in the linked thread) a fairly detailed explanation of why I think the law does apply to modern Christians...even though I totally understand why they want to be free of it. If the truth be told, I suspect they want to be as far from the god Jesus worshiped as possible also.

But the question posed in the OP is worth considering.

IF THERE IS A GOD LIKE THE ONE YOU WORSHIP...why doesn't that god simply "show its face?" Why not reveal itself in an unambiguous way to everyone...and require of humans whatever it wants to require?

We won't lose our "free will"...we could still decide to "obey"...or we could decide to "do what we want instead."

Now don't get me wrong...I can come up with "reasons" "excuses" or "rationalizations" with the best of apologists.

But the bottom line is that one reason...perhaps a very compelling reason...

...is that there is no god of that kind in existence.

It is possible.

Most theists cannot even acknowledge the possibility.

Can you, Neo?

Can you say "It is possible there is no GOD of the kind I 'believe' exists"...in a way that actually acknowledges that you see the possibility?

0 Replies

@Romeo Fabulini,

I love Dr. Quinn. Just discovered her during one of my son's afternoon spent watching TV... Such a perfect mix of physical beauty, western street smarts and 70s liberal values... And her long-haired trophy husband is just unbelievable!

0 Replies

I wonder what Godisapoormanager thinksofallthis repartee. Does he/she understand any of it or the significance [?] of the arguments?

1 Reply

Frank Apisa said:

Quote:

Neo and I have been going at it in heated arguments for over a decade now..

Haha the atheist versus the JW, it's almost as entertaining as 'King Kong versus Godzilla".. Smile

You want a real opponent? Try taking on the kid from Nazareth.. Smile

Jesus said "Satan has no hold on me" (John 14:30)

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/jesus_vs_satan.gif

3 Replies

@Romeo Fabulini,

You're one sick bubbie, Romeo. I wish you well.

0 Replies

Frank Apisa said:

Quote:

You think a great deal of yourself, Romeo. That makes one of us

Don't forget to include my loyal disciples from all over internet-land.. Wink

(I'm Mick):
Spannerose - "Mick, I would like you to know that the result of reading your posts I am left with the desire to pick up my bible for the first time in years"
ChildofLight - "So good to read your responses Mick, some are quite witty and made LOL"
Happysandyh - "welcome Mick, welcome welcome!"
HenryS - "You are brilliant Mick in finding appropriate phrases. Another one of your superb emails to store"
Firebrand - "Amen and welcome Mick"
Coconut - "Whew! Thanks for sharing Mick"
Sarah4Jesus - "Listen to Mick in Plymouth, he is a great teacher"
Cathie - "Very wise advice Mick, thanks"
Kierri - "That was one of the best explanations I've ever heard! Yay for Mick in Plymouth"
Haimehenmmli - "I LOVE IT MATE!!! I'm going to put it into my files, with some of my other favorites, from you"
Evachrst3 - "Right on, Mick, I couldn't agree more.Thank you for defending the faith so eloquently".
Devilmademedoit2 - "I love this! Thanks, Mick!"
SweetSummer96 - "Wow. That's a cool story Mick."
Vespasian052 - "Wow! Mick,what an awesome tale.."
Beekpr9 - "Amen to all you have said, Mick!"
Saipan1777 - "Spot on Mick bravo"
Duke Tinn - "Thanks again Mick. Great Stuff"
Tahella - "Welcome Mick!"
Ainglkiss - "Mick what a wonderful story. You write so well. Keep up the great work"
BlessedOne - "Glad to have you here Mick! Jesus is the way!"
MonkGirl - "Wow, thank you Mick! That is really comforting...and all I really needed to hear!"
WOFman - "Welcome Mick!"
JeffC - "HELL YEAH! PREACH IT BROTHER, THE REALITY WAY! (LUV YUR STYLE....)
Nottonguetied - "I loved those stories from Mick"
Honeybearx - "This was very good reading thank you Mick"
Megan - "Mick, I just wanted to tell you that I loved this story, it was very touching"
Benjoman - "Your one of the only ones from the singles board that I still love Mick"
Allisoneness -"You are the one true Christian on here, keep up the good work and praise the Lord"
Sherry Anne - "Mick i love your posts"
Antipas - "Brilliant yet again Mick"
Easynote - "ROFL Mick you are pure class, another of your timeless classics!"
Kermit - "I love Mick. He is so, how shall I say it, RIGHT ON THE MONEY AND FUNNY, TOO"
Kermmiekr - "How uplifting Mick, and so very true"
Chrysalis55- "Just want to say, I love your posts and your messages not only insprire me, sometimes they make me laugh
because you are able to get your point across in such a great way. WAY TO GO waymarker!!!"
Evenflow- I just LOVE this post You have made me smile BIG TIME this morning. Good for you and what a great attitude you have to life xx
Apple Pie - "Really good to see you, Mick. Come on over to 4church, we could do with your input and your humour"
Lillian - "Mick please come back..it's nice having you on the board"

2 Replies

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Frank Apisa said:

Quote:
Neo and I have been going at it in heated arguments for over a decade now..

Haha the atheist versus the JW, it's almost as entertaining as 'King Kong versus Godzilla"..
You want a real opponent? Try taking on the kid from Nazareth..

Jesus said "Satan has no hold on me" (John 14:30)

I am not an atheist, Romeo. Stop running into brick walls. It is funny to watch...but there is a cost for you.

0 Replies

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Frank Apisa said:

Quote:
You think a great deal of yourself, Romeo. That makes one of us

Don't forget to include my loyal disciples from all over internet-land..
(I'm Mick):
Spannerose - "Mick, I would like you to know that the result of reading your posts I am left with the desire to pick up my bible for the first time in years"
ChildofLight - "So good to read your responses Mick, some are quite witty and made LOL"
Happysandyh - "welcome Mick, welcome welcome!"
HenryS - "You are brilliant Mick in finding appropriate phrases. Another one of your superb emails to store"
Firebrand - "Amen and welcome Mick"
Coconut - "Whew! Thanks for sharing Mick"
Sarah4Jesus - "Listen to Mick in Plymouth, he is a great teacher"
Cathie - "Very wise advice Mick, thanks"
Kierri - "That was one of the best explanations I've ever heard! Yay for Mick in Plymouth"
Haimehenmmli - "I LOVE IT MATE!!! I'm going to put it into my files, with some of my other favorites, from you"
Evachrst3 - "Right on, Mick, I couldn't agree more.Thank you for defending the faith so eloquently".
Devilmademedoit2 - "I love this! Thanks, Mick!"
SweetSummer96 - "Wow. That's a cool story Mick."
Vespasian052 - "Wow! Mick,what an awesome tale.."
Beekpr9 - "Amen to all you have said, Mick!"
Saipan1777 - "Spot on Mick bravo"
Duke Tinn - "Thanks again Mick. Great Stuff"
Tahella - "Welcome Mick!"
Ainglkiss - "Mick what a wonderful story. You write so well. Keep up the great work"
BlessedOne - "Glad to have you here Mick! Jesus is the way!"
MonkGirl - "Wow, thank you Mick! That is really comforting...and all I really needed to hear!"
WOFman - "Welcome Mick!"
JeffC - "HELL YEAH! PREACH IT BROTHER, THE REALITY WAY! (LUV YUR STYLE....)
Nottonguetied - "I loved those stories from Mick"
Honeybearx - "This was very good reading thank you Mick"
Megan - "Mick, I just wanted to tell you that I loved this story, it was very touching"
Benjoman - "Your one of the only ones from the singles board that I still love Mick"
Allisoneness -"You are the one true Christian on here, keep up the good work and praise the Lord"
Sherry Anne - "Mick i love your posts"
Antipas - "Brilliant yet again Mick"
Easynote - "ROFL Mick you are pure class, another of your timeless classics!"
Kermit - "I love Mick. He is so, how shall I say it, RIGHT ON THE MONEY AND FUNNY, TOO"
Kermmiekr - "How uplifting Mick, and so very true"
Chrysalis55- "Just want to say, I love your posts and your messages not only insprire me, sometimes they make me laugh
because you are able to get your point across in such a great way. WAY TO GO waymarker!!!"
Evenflow- I just LOVE this post You have made me smile BIG TIME this morning. Good for you and what a great attitude you have to life xx
Apple Pie - "Really good to see you, Mick. Come on over to 4church, we could do with your input and your humour"
Lillian - "Mick please come back..it's nice having you on the board"

I admire your dedication.

It must take up lots of your time to manufacture all those identities just so you can post something like this.

0 Replies

Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:

It must take up lots of your time to manufacture all those identities just so you can post something like this

Hey folks, Frank's saying I made up all my fan mail!
Poor guy, he must be cracking up.. Wink

WIKI- "Paranoid personality disorder is a psychiatric diagnosis characterized by paranoia characterized by a pervasive suspiciousness and generalized mistrust of others"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoid_personality_disorder

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:
It must take up lots of your time to manufacture all those identities just so you can post something like this

Hey folks, Frank's saying I made up all my fan mail!
Poor guy, he must be cracking up..
WIKI- "Paranoid personality disorder is a psychiatric diagnosis characterized by paranoia characterized by a pervasive suspiciousness and generalized mistrust of others"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoid_personality_disorder

Well...I am basing that on the fact that you are such a lovable individual here. (Sarcasm, Romeo.)

If you act and talk like you do here where those praises were offered...then I think you wrote them. They most likely did not come from other people.

I will acknowledge that if you act like a reasonable person rather than a dandy with delusions of grandeur...perhaps they are real.

But I suspect the egotistical, supercilious, very-difficult-to-like persona is the norm...so I hold the tributes suspect.

"Fan mail!" (Romeo saying, "Someone aim me at that brick wall. I can't see it, my head is down and I am running as fast as I can!")

0 Replies

@Godisapoormanager,

There are several reasons one can think of:
- He doesn't care (or perhaps, no longer cares) enough to do such a thing
- He knows it might save millions, but might cause the deaths of billions (fanaticism, warfare, riots).
- Maybe miracles still happen, but are explained away or ignored by humanity as a whole.
- Gods visage might be so terrible to behold that it might cause instant death (there's numerous instances in the old testament that seem to indicate such)

What I, as an agnostic theïst, personally believe, is that faith is actually acceptance without proof. Offering proof in one way or another would then invalidate everyone's faith.

2 Replies

@najmelliw,

najmelliw wrote:

What I, as an agnostic theïst, personally believe, is that faith is actually acceptance without proof. Offering proof in one way or another would then invalidate everyone's faith.

Well said, indeed. There can be no proof of the existence of a Creator. If such incontrovertible evidence were to be discovered, we would have to call this being something other than 'God.' God has already been defined and the acceptance (or rejection) of the idea of an omnipotent deiety depends, at least in part, on the impossibility of the human mind ever to grasp the parameters of this supposed being. Without faith, there can be no God. With the presence of proof, faith becomes unnecessary.

1 Reply

@najmelliw,

najmelliw wrote:

There are several reasons one can think of:
- He doesn't care (or perhaps, no longer cares) enough to do such a thing
- He knows it might save millions, but might cause the deaths of billions (fanaticism, warfare, riots).
- Maybe miracles still happen, but are explained away or ignored by humanity as a whole.
- Gods visage might be so terrible to behold that it might cause instant death (there's numerous instances in the old testament that seem to indicate such)

Or he might be shy.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

You would be shy too, if you found out your visage could kill people on the spot!

Quote:

Well said, indeed. There can be no proof of the existence of a Creator. If such incontrovertible evidence were to be discovered, we would have to call this being something other than 'God.' God has already been defined and the acceptance (or rejection) of the idea of an omnipotent deiety depends, at least in part, on the impossibility of the human mind ever to grasp the parameters of this supposed being. Without faith, there can be no God. With the presence of proof, faith becomes unnecessary.

Andrei, interesting. But why can there be no god without faith? I'd say that without faith on our part, his existence becomes as irrelevant to us as we might be to him.

3 Replies

@najmelliw,

najmelliw wrote:

You would be shy too, if you found out your visage could kill people on the spot!

And even though I'm omnipotent I can't do anything about it.

that explains everything.

I'm really fucked up.

2 Replies

@najmelliw,

Good point. I think I misspoke. Of course, God could exist with or without our faith in such a being. My point was that anything which is susceptible to scientific proof can no longer be considered to be 'God.'

0 Replies

@najmelliw,

If not shy, embarrassed. After that burning bush episode he said he'd call back, then there was that party with the cherubs and a couple of lost weeks in the Pegasus system, and by then it was just too late.

0 Replies

@Romeo Fabulini,

I invite folks to Google some of these references. I tried a few. Plenty of posts all over the internet, though I was unable to locate the original poster for any. I know, I know, I didn't try them all!

0 Replies

@Lustig Andrei,

I may have said this before; I think Godisapoormanagerhasflownthecoop

0 Replies

God...why would he not show his face or an miracle to save millions!

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