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Will The Professor Direct the Beancounters to Ignore Debt Limit?

 
 
Reply Fri 27 Sep, 2013 02:11 am
I Think yes, he will dare the courts to countermand him. Which they will, not that the courts vacating him is unusual.
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Sep, 2013 08:33 am
@hawkeye10,
Hunh?
RABEL222
 
  0  
Reply Fri 27 Sep, 2013 03:41 pm
@joefromchicago,
That was my reaction to what he posted. Does anyone have any idea what Hawk is talking about?
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Sep, 2013 04:00 pm
@RABEL222,
I think this is hawk's attempt to be clever.

Of course he is too clever even for himself. The current fight is over the CR, not the debt limit. That won't occur until Mid Oct.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Sep, 2013 04:24 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

I think this is hawk's attempt to be clever.

Of course he is too clever even for himself. The current fight is over the CR, not the debt limit. That won't occur until Mid Oct.

20 days, practically right now in Congress time. the shut down will only apply to 4o% of the government, big deal. the debt limit is the deadline that matters.

my currrent best guess is that the shut down starts oct 1 and runs till about oct 27.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Sep, 2013 10:25 am
I am gaining confidence that The Professor is going with the platinum coin idea, and will then claim to have saved america from a do nothing Congress.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Sep, 2013 10:31 am
@hawkeye10,
I am guessing that the "Professor" is President Barack Obama.

The use of the term Beancounters is a bit confusing. Beancounter usually refers to someone concerned with financial matters. Anyone with any financial sense understands that we urgently need to raise the debt limit today (or we will end up throwing money down the sink and risk another financial crisis).

Unless bean counting is the name of some sexual act that I am unaware of. I will go ask my kids.


hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Mon 30 Sep, 2013 11:07 am
@maxdancona,
you have evaded the question, if congress does not reach agreement and pass an authorization will Obama ignore the limit? he has shown over and over again a willingness to act like Putin, to operate as if he is king, so why would he not ignore the limit and then champion himself again, maybe go on a five city victory tour?

btw: if you are truely confused by terms then you are really stupid. I suspect that was theater.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Sep, 2013 11:17 am
@hawkeye10,
That bullshit Hawkeye. There is a legislative process that Congress could use to overturn Obamacare. This is the way the government works. Congress votes on legislation and if they have the votes then they can change the law.

The don't have the votes. It is tough luck for the Republicans, but sorry. That is the way democracy works.

This attempt at blackmail... to threaten to damage the country economically if they don't get what the want (given that they don't have the votes to use the normal legislative process), is ridiculous.

Obama is doing the job of a president as it is outlined in the Constitution. If congress passes legislation, then he can act on it.

It is the responsibility of Congress to raise the debt ceiling because everyone of us knows that not doing so would harm the country. It is not the responsibility of the President to give into demands of people who would hold the economy hostage because they don't like legislation that they don't have the votes to overturn in the proper way.

maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Sep, 2013 11:23 am
@maxdancona,
There is a simple reason that President Obama is willing to negotiate with the Iranian government but not with the Tea Party controlled House.

The Iranian government isn't threatening to blow up the World economy if we don't meet their demands.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 30 Sep, 2013 12:17 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

That bullshit Hawkeye. There is a legislative process that Congress could use to overturn Obamacare. This is the way the government works. Congress votes on legislation and if they have the votes then they can change the law.

The don't have the votes. It is tough luck for the Republicans, but sorry. That is the way democracy works.

This attempt at blackmail... to threaten to damage the country economically if they don't get what the want (given that they don't have the votes to use the normal legislative process), is ridiculous.

Obama is doing the job of a president as it is outlined in the Constitution. If congress passes legislation, then he can act on it.

It is the responsibility of Congress to raise the debt ceiling because everyone of us knows that not doing so would harm the country. It is not the responsibility of the President to give into demands of people who would hold the economy hostage because they don't like legislation that they don't have the votes to overturn in the proper way.



unresponsive, perhapse you can find another tread to copy this post in. the question assumes that congress passes no authorization, the reasons for not are irrelavant. you are not 15 are you? dig deep, try to follow the english language.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Mon 30 Sep, 2013 12:20 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

There is a simple reason that President Obama is willing to negotiate with the Iranian government but not with the Tea Party controlled House.

The Iranian government isn't threatening to blow up the World economy if we don't meet their demands.

unresponsive. just as the question does not care why congress woukd pass nothing it cares not at all what part Obama played in nothing happening, unless he is actively trying to get nothing to happen so that he can ignore congress and save the day by acting like Putin.

Btw you responses indicate a mis belief that I have a horse in this race, I do not, I dispise both parties and think that they should be killed off.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Sep, 2013 12:22 pm
@hawkeye10,
Who dosent understand simple english now?
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 30 Sep, 2013 12:27 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

Who dosent understand simple english now?

use your words...quote max's words and show where I did not understand them. a driveby insult might be fun, but you have not done more than that.
RABEL222
 
  0  
Reply Mon 30 Sep, 2013 12:48 pm
@hawkeye10,
Why waste my time. I have posted facts to you before and you do the conservative thing and deny them without posting anything to rebut them. Max is the one who posted the facts and he is the one you should answer with facts. I just stated you dont understand english and that statement stands by itself.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Sep, 2013 12:52 pm
@hawkeye10,
Let me try to answer your question directly.

If Congress doesn't do its job, the government will face a partial shutdown at midnight tonight. If Congress continues to not do its job, the US will default on its debts starting sometime in the mid-to-late October.

This will be a painful disaster. But it is completely up to Congress. Obama will not interfere. If you are asking about the trillion dollar coin thing, it won't happen.

Congress needs to do its job. President Obama understands that.

0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Sep, 2013 01:35 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

you have evaded the question, if congress does not reach agreement and pass an authorization will Obama ignore the limit? he has shown over and over again a willingness to act like Putin, to operate as if he is king, so why would he not ignore the limit and then champion himself again, maybe go on a five city victory tour?

btw: if you are truely confused by terms then you are really stupid. I suspect that was theater.

There is a constitutional question as to whether the President can increase the debt limit on his own. Congress has authorized the spending. Refusing to authorize the funding (borrowing) for the spending they already authorized raises some serious questions. Many constitutional scholars claim the President can borrow since the Congress has already done it's requirement and authorized the spending. That hardly makes him king. It only makes him head of the executive branch, which is supposed to carry out the spending Congress authorized.

Your statement is a logical fallacy hawkeye since you presuppose that it would be wrong for the President to do so.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Sep, 2013 01:40 pm
@parados,
the law allowing the president to mint a $1 trillion dollar coin and depositing it with the fed and paying bills with it seems solid. the other choice us to ignore the debt limit law and dare the courts to do something about it. the president routinely ignores laws that he does not want enforced and the courts stay pretty quiet, I think it a good bet that the courts would at least stall before moving against Obama.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Sep, 2013 01:48 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
the other choice us to ignore the debt limit law and dare the courts to do something about it.

Care to show where in the Constitution it states the Congress can limit the debt? Congress would have to prove they have the power to pass such a law. I doubt they want to go down that path.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Sep, 2013 01:51 pm
@parados,
Quote:
Validity of public debt

Section 4 (of the 14th amendment) confirmed the legitimacy of all U.S. public debt appropriated by the Congress. It also confirmed that neither the United States nor any state would pay for the loss of slaves or debts that had been incurred by the Confederacy. For example, during the Civil War several British and French banks had lent large sums of money to the Confederacy to support its war against the Union.[152] In Perry v. United States (1935), the Supreme Court ruled that under Section 4 voiding a United States bond "went beyond the congressional power."[153]

The debt-ceiling crisis in 2011 raised the question of what powers Section 4 gives to the President, an issue that remains unsettled.[154] Some, such as legal scholar Garrett Epps, fiscal expert Bruce Bartlett and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, have argued that a debt ceiling may be unconstitutional and therefore void as long as it interferes with the duty of the government to pay interest on outstanding bonds and to make payments owed to pensioners (that is, Social Security recipients).[155][156] Legal analyst Jeffrey Rosen has argued that Section 4 gives the President unilateral authority to raise or ignore the national debt ceiling, and that if challenged the Supreme Court would likely rule in favor of expanded executive power or dismiss the case altogether for lack of standing


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Validity_of_public_debt
0 Replies
 
 

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