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I am unclear of the use of comma in the following sentences

 
 
Reply Fri 30 Aug, 2013 04:16 am
The following are the sentences and I mentioned the confusion I have in the brackets after each sentence. Please let me know what I need to learn to make this clear to myself.

Then, if questions remain , you can always be honest and say so; the reader will forgive you. (usage of comma)
Speaking of classics, Meliville and Conrad spent years at sea, and you can almost smell the salt air in their writing. (usage of comma)
You may have noticed in Jane Austen’s novels, ladies are always present.(can I replace the comma with the word "that"?)
Don’t let the exceptions mislead you, though.(usage of comma)
It’s important to ask, because people who don't know their readers or who forget about them aren't very good writers(usage of comma)
All writers, remember, are readers first.(usage of comma)
Someone is always on the receiving end, but who?(usage of comma)
Stop working now and then, and, like Lily Tomlin’s operator, ask, “Is this the party to whom I am speaking?”(usage of comma)

I think I may be need to read up on use of comma. Please point me to something which can help me understand the use of comma in these sentences.

Ravikanth
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Type: Question • Score: 4 • Views: 1,152 • Replies: 16

 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Aug, 2013 04:38 am
@gettothepoint,
The first sentence is problematic because of a lack of context--not knowing what the sentence which precedes it says makes a judgment difficult. I personally consider it badly written. The readers are unable to ask the author questions. It is possible that, in context, the commas are useful. Standing alone, i would eliminate not only the first comma, but the word "Then."

The first comma in the second sentence is needed. The second comma is not needed because of the word "and," but i would use it if i were writing the sentence.

In the third sentence, "that" could indeed replace the comma, but i think it scans better as it is written. (By the way, it's a nonsensical sentence. Saying that ladies are always present in Jane Austen novels is the equivalent of saying the sun always rises in the east.)

The fourth sentence is fine the way it is written, and in fact the comma is necessary before the word "though."

I am ambivalent about the comma in the fifth sentence, but if i were to write that sentence, i would use the comma as was done.

The sixth sentence is fine as written.

The seventh sentence is fine as written.

In the eighth sentence, the last comma should be replaced by a colon. Commonly, a passage within a sentence which is enclosed in quote marks is introduced by a colon.

I have no advice for you for reading matter on commas.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Aug, 2013 06:44 am
Get Eats, Shoots and Leaves by Lynn Truss

http://www.amazon.com/Eats-Shoots-Leaves-Tolerance-Punctuation/dp/1592402038

Joe(Everything I needed to know about commas, I learned in that book.)Nation
dalehileman
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 30 Aug, 2013 01:13 pm
@gettothepoint,
The general rule,, Get, is that the comma signifies a slight pause and the semi a longer one. In general though where the q arises the trend is away
Joe Nation
 
  3  
Reply Fri 30 Aug, 2013 03:08 pm
@dalehileman,
Dale: A semicolon has nothing to do with pauses of any length.

Joe(please, look it up.)Nation
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Aug, 2013 04:15 pm
@Joe Nation,
Quote:
Dale: A semicolon has nothing to do with pauses of any length.
I suppose Joe in a purely technical sense. However it has that effect, as in

http://www.virtualsalt.com/semicoln.htm

Quote:
Think of a comma as a brief pause, a semicolon as a more moderate pause, and a period as a stop, and you can see the logic of the hierarchy.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Fri 30 Aug, 2013 05:10 pm
Semicolons separate clauses, either a dependent and an independent clause, or two independent clauses which can reasonably be joined in the same sentence. I know of no good reason to assume that when reading a text aloud, one would make a foolish attempt to insert a longer pause just because one encounters a semicolon. As always, Dale adds nothing useful, and introduces unnecessary confusion into the topic.
dalehileman
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 30 Aug, 2013 05:59 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
As always, Dale adds nothing useful
I must be just a terrible person
Joe Nation
 
  2  
Reply Fri 30 Aug, 2013 09:22 pm
@dalehileman,
No, Dale, you've just been the victim of some really bad information. Commas indicate a break in the rhythm of the sentence, semicolons indicate, as Setanta stated above in so many words, that you are about to encounter a closely related clause or independent clause.

I am what is known in the radio business as a 'cold reader'. You can hand me a page and I will go to the microphone and, without reviewing any part of the text, read it aloud over the air. Believe me, I am sensitive to the use of commas and semicolons, especially when used incorrectly.

Joe(they embarrass both themselves and me)Nation
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 31 Aug, 2013 10:20 am
@Joe Nation,
No, you should explain your contention, Joe(I have thee book on punctuation)Nation.
dalehileman
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 31 Aug, 2013 10:48 am
@JTT,
JTT, Joe is evidently contending my link in posting #…….840 as misleading
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 31 Aug, 2013 01:22 pm
@Joe Nation,
Quote:
Joe(Everything I needed to know about commas, I learned in that book.)Nation


Why don't I find that surprising, Joe.

Quote:

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001096.html

June 21, 2004

READS, ZAPS AND DIGRESSES
Lynne Truss may believe that "people who put an apostrophe in the wrong place ... deserve to be struck by lightning, hacked up on the spot and buried in an unmarked grave", but apparently she herself isn't very careful about where she puts her commas. In a New Yorker review posted today, Louis Menand comes down on Truss like a whole squall line of Jovian thunderbolts, and after his first 1200 words, there's not enough left to hack up and bury.

He starts this way:

"The first punctuation mistake in “Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation” (Gotham; $17.50), by Lynne Truss, a British writer, appears in the dedication, where a nonrestrictive clause is not preceded by a comma. It is a wild ride downhill from there. “Eats, Shoots & Leaves” presents itself as a call to arms, in a world spinning rapidly into subliteracy, by a hip yet unapologetic curmudgeon, a stickler for the rules of writing. But it’s hard to fend off the suspicion that the whole thing might be a hoax."

He ends his discussion of Truss by pointing out that her fans are mad as hell

"and they do not wish to be handed the line that “language is always evolving,” or some other slice of liberal pie. They don’t even want to know what the distinction between a restrictive and a non-restrictive clause might be. They are like people who lose control when they hear a cell phone ring in a public place: they just need to vent. Truss is their Jeremiah. They don’t care where her commas are, because her heart is in the right place."

Having vaporized Truss in about 1200 words, Menand devotes the second half of his review to an interesting series of digressions about the differences between speech and writing and the nature of a writer's "voice". Punctuation plays a minor role in this discussion, and Truss almost no role at all.

Menand may have foolish, hypocritical and incoherent ideas about possessive antecedents, but he can sling a mean lightning bolt, and I think it's fair to say that Truss was asking for it. And after the smoke clears, Menand tells a couple of nice stories about W.H. Auden, James Agee and Luciano Pavarotti.

Posted by Mark Liberman at June 21, 2004 11:30 PM
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Sep, 2013 09:42 am
@JTT,
Quote:
No, you should explain your contention, Joe(I have thee book on punctuation)Nation.


So right, JTT

By the way, that should be :Joe(I have THINE book on punctuation)Nation

Joe(moving on)Nation
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Sep, 2013 10:53 am
I know it's petty, but i can't resist.

I have thy book, and i have thine answer. Thine before words that begin with a vowel.
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Sep, 2013 11:18 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
I know it's petty, but i can't resist.

I have thy book, and i have thine answer. Thine before words that begin with a vowel.


Not petty at all, boss, I just learned something.

Joe(I speak English as a second language, I am an American.)Nation
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Sep, 2013 11:26 am
Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the word . . .
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Sep, 2013 03:10 pm
@Joe Nation,
Quote:
By the way, that should be :Joe(I have THINE book on punctuation)Nation


Wrong again, Joe(I make it a habit to be wrong on language questions)Nation. I wrote 'thee' and I meant 'thee'.
0 Replies
 
 

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