Why is it so important to refute Christianity?

dlowan wrote:

So, Husker - not asking about you, but more generally, would calling people the anti-christ be a common thing in christian circles?

Just trying to get my head around all this stuff - you see, I really have almost nothing to do with christians these days - and the ones I wa sraised with would not use such language - is it a more fundamentalist thing, if it is a general thing? Would preachers, for instance, call people anti-christ from pulpits and such?

I think - and this is IMO - but it's going to be found more in the Calvary Chapel and evangelical churchs - I'd leave the fundy word out because I think what fundy means is in limbo by a great many Christians at this time in history.

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Ok - thanks - I was wondering - of course, the church I went to was very polite - you know what they call the Anglican Church? The ruling class at prayer!

All this stuff is way unfamiliar to me - there are pockets of it - but it is not what most people grow up with here, I don't think.

This burning in hell stuff - I think it was mentioned once by me minister when I was going to church sometimes.

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Very loosely paraphrased:

"Death comes unexpectedly!" Reverend Ford

"Dude, use more 'glad texts', my dad says there are over 800 of them so God must want us to be happy. Youse spookin' the congregation and raising some eyebrows." Pollyanna

"I've found 826 'glad texts' in the Bible, this should give me 16 years of sermons." Reverend Ford

** I remember this because when I was 4 I hadn't thought of sermons being rehearsed and was kinda shocked to see people practicing their religious speeches.

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Craven de Kere wrote:

Very loosely paraphrased:

"Death comes unexpectedly!" Reverend Ford

"Dude, use more 'glad texts', my dad says there are over 800 of them so God must want us to be happy. Youse spookin' the congregation and raising some eyebrows." Pollyanna

"I've found 826 'glad texts' in the Bible, this should give me 16 years of sermons." Reverend Ford

** I remember this because when I was 4 I hadn't thought of sermons being rehearsed and was kinda shocked to see people practicing their religious speeches.

what chuch was that in?

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Hmmm - well, actually, as I said way up the thread, I think the whole hell thing was way out of fashion - I can remember my minister once muttering darkly that he wasn't all that sure people should give up on it so lightly.

I think he was secretly nostalgic for eternal damnation and all.

I think it was seen as one of those non-core things - like stoning people to death for stuff and such.

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husker wrote:

what chuch was that in?

It's from the movie Pollyanna.

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Describe your idea of a likable, respectable, authentic Christian...anybody?

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onyxelle is a good model, just from her statements on this thread.

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There are plenty, and their good features outweigh their religion. Mr. Green

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I wasn't so much asking for specific examples of people--but qualities.

Christianity is so negatively viewed here. Christianity is such a kind and loving religion--so it must be the Christians that have turned everyone off.

Hence my question.

Does the mere fact that most Christians believe that non-believers will suffer a bad end make them unlikable?

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How is thinking that we will burn in hell kind and loving Sofia.

I'll pose the same questions to you:

Do you think I will burn in hell for eternity?

And if so, am I supposed to think it a kind and loving belief?

And no, it's not that "mere" fact. That's just the tip of the iceberg. I don't see Christianity as "kind and loving", I see it as a pernicious anti-thesis to free thinking.

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It's the overall aggressive stance of the religion as a whole, speaking out of two sides of their mouth. Kind and loving, but acquiesce or suffer dire consequences. Cramming it down non Christian throats.

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I know lots of people who never cram!!!!! One of my workmates is a catholic - albeit one who scolds the pope regularly and only goes to church when her mummy cries, cos they won't ordain women - she is a delight and a wonder.

I actually do not know many christians socially - but few of them cram. They wouldn't dream of it!

I think it is the more fundamentalist/born againy folk who DO cram.

There are a number of EXTREMELY aggressive churches down where I work - which is a very poor area. Some of them are actually quite dangerous - but I think it unfair to tar the majority of christians with such a brush.

Maybe the crammers are more common in the states?

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There are legions of kind, quiet Christians who suddenly try to force their beliefs on one. Often it's the last ones you would suspect of being that way. As indicated earlier, I have a number of Christian friends whom I love very much, but they still can get pushy at times.

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Craven de Kere wrote:

How is thinking that we will burn in hell kind and loving Sofia.

I'll pose the same questions to you:

Do you think I will burn in hell for eternity?

And if so, am I supposed to think it a kind and loving belief?

And no, it's not that "mere" fact. That's just the tip of the iceberg. I don't see Christianity as "kind and loving", I see it as a pernicious anti-thesis to free thinking.

Thanks for the laugh. That was funny.
I was talking about the teaching by Jesus about how we should treat one another. If we all followed his guide, it would be a ridiculous, liberal communal-style world; giving everything, being given what we need--not judging anyone...

The Hell part is none of my business, and to answer your question, I can honestly say this may flash in my mind, when someone says something I consider foul and anti-Jesus. But, I don't allow it to stay in my mind. I do not think I'm privy to the information required to make this judgement.

I will admit to being horrified at some of the anti-Jesus writings and quotes and jokes I see. I just click the mouse.

Years ago, I did think it was cut and dried. But, as all people do, I came to a point where I wondered about babies dying, retarded or mentally ill people---decent people, who hadn't been reached by Christianity... and I know a fair God wouldn't consign them to Hell. I did a little reading and came to an understanding that <paraphrasing> --No one enters paradise but through Christ's grace--which leads to unlimited possibilities. I don't need to know all the answers--and anyone who thinks they have all the answers is in for a surprise, IMO.

However, the people at my church think I'm a lunatic. (My mother, my sister) I must say most Christians are very stern on this issue.

...and Craven, it's not like Christianity is a closed club, or something. It invites everyone. I think there are some good qualities in it.

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The cram factor doesn't bother me. What bothers me is the inherent elements of the actual religion, sexism, homophobia, racism and hatred and intolerance of other beliefs.

Coupled with the fact that I think it's a belief based on falsehood I think it is a belief that along with most other religions needs to fall by the wayside.

I also think we are progressing nicely towards secularism and I welcome it.

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I agree that we're progressing toward secularism.
I think it won't be long before believers will be persecuted, moreso than just socially.

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It gets turned around so that the persecuters call themselves persecuted. I would never enter these threads if Christians were as kind and loving as they claim to be.

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we are taught that secularism is a force of the enemy - but for this world.

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What bothers me is the inherent elements of the actual religion, sexism, homophobia, racism and hatred and intolerance of other beliefs.

I work at not being homophobia, a racist, not encouraging hatred and intolerance of other beliefs.

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Sofia wrote:

I was talking about the teaching by Jesus about how we should treat one another.

I like many of the Christian principles and follow them, I just don't see them as being exclusive to Christianity (i.e. many of the "Christian morals" are things I just consider moral, without the need for Christianity).

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The Hell part is none of my business, and to answer your question, I can honestly say this may flash in my mind, when someone says something I consider foul and anti-Jesus. But, I don't allow it to stay in my mind. I do not think I'm privy to the information required to make this judgement.

Do you ever doubt the concept as being a carrot/stick approach possibly devised my man to further their beliefs?

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I will admit to being horrified at some of the anti-Jesus writings and quotes and jokes I see. I just click the mouse.

I promise not to say "PC" about this more than that once <<<

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Years ago, I did think it was cut and dried. But, as all people do, I came to a point where I wondered about babies dying, retarded or mentally ill people---decent people, who hadn't been reached by Christianity... and I know a fair God wouldn't consign them to Hell.

Some people believe that the Bible is worded in a way that they would have to knowingly reject Christ to go to hell. So these people think that the ones you describe just go to Purgatory, which is a waiting room of sorts while the Christians from heaven can try to convert them.

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...and Craven, it's not like Christianity is a closed club, or something. It invites everyone. I think there are some good qualities in it.

It is and it isn't. Within the Bible are racist, sexist and homophobic discrimination all coded into the text. Sure, these people can ignore/get over it but when the Bible advocates killing Gays it tends to be seen as excluding them from life itself, not just the religion.

In addition it's only inclusive if you accept the belief. For example, I think it's a primitive belief, so in my case I'm excluded and will have to burn forever.

Insofar as it accepts those who accept it it is accepting (with subsequent exclusions for gays and such),

But yes, I agree that there are good qualities, thing is, I don't see them as exclusively Christian qualities. And I think that tying them to religion can be a bad thing. Many people reject the good items that they associate with Christianity because of the negative ones.

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Why is it so important to refute Christianity?

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