10
   

Manning wants to live as a woman

 
 
PUNKEY
 
Reply Thu 22 Aug, 2013 06:57 am
This just gets more weird every day.

http://news.yahoo.com/bradley-manning-says-wants-live-woman-120700028.html;
 
jespah
 
  3  
Reply Thu 22 Aug, 2013 06:59 am
@PUNKEY,
I saw that. I wonder if at least a part of the motivation might be a thought that being in a women's prison (or in some sort of separate accommodations for transsexuals), that he'd be physically safer.
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Thu 22 Aug, 2013 07:31 am
@jespah,
It's certainly an unusual twist. I don't think this ties into her motivation for the leaks. I certainly don't see a tie between gender orientation and whistleblowing/leaking government information. I also don't see the safety issue since Manning will be in a military prison and would have a different level of oversight than a typical civilian prison. I'm sure she is sincere in this, it's just a strange time to reveal it. I also wonder it ties into a plea for a reduced sentence. Does the government want to pay for and manage this entire process when it could set her free and wash its hands of the whole affair?
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Aug, 2013 07:45 am
@engineer,
If you go fishing, you might be a man, but if you're Manning, you're a woman.

Er... why is the news even reporting this? Because it's titillating? (No pun intended) (Pardon my French.)
0 Replies
 
PUNKEY
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Aug, 2013 07:55 am
He certainly has been in a high emotional state all this time, even before the incident.

0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Aug, 2013 10:41 am
@jespah,
jespah wrote:
I saw that. I wonder if at least a part of the motivation might be a thought that being in a women's prison (or in some sort of separate accommodations for transsexuals), that he'd be physically safer.

Nah. It's who he is. PBS Frontline did a good story on this some time back.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 22 Aug, 2013 10:42 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
It's certainly an unusual twist. I don't think this ties into her motivation for the leaks. I certainly don't see a tie between gender orientation and whistleblowing/leaking government information.

Actually, it is the direct cause of the entire thing.

His dad tried to cure him of it by pressing him to enter the Army.

Being so effeminate, boot camp was sheer hell for him.

Being so unhappy, he lashed out at the world by exposing all the intelligence.


engineer wrote:
I also wonder it ties into a plea for a reduced sentence. Does the government want to pay for and manage this entire process when it could set her free and wash its hands of the whole affair?

I'm pretty sure the government wants him in prison for a long time.

You're calling him a her already? My brain doesn't shift gears that fast.
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Thu 22 Aug, 2013 11:40 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
You're calling him a her already? My brain doesn't shift gears that fast.

A2K is a slow process for me. I usually re-read my post a few times before hitting the reply button so edits are easy. The other part of that is I think you should call people what they want to be called within reason. If Manning wants to be a "she", no skin off my back.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 22 Aug, 2013 12:34 pm
@engineer,
Quote:
If Manning wants to be a "she", no skin off my back


True but it is kind of going along with denying reality, as he is male in body and even if he can get his outer sexual characteristics change at the taxpayers expense he still would be a male.

We can not change a male into a real functioning female.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Thu 22 Aug, 2013 02:56 pm
Yet another sign that Manning is a psychological mess and never should have been trusted with state secrets.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Thu 22 Aug, 2013 05:33 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

jespah wrote:
I saw that. I wonder if at least a part of the motivation might be a thought that being in a women's prison (or in some sort of separate accommodations for transsexuals), that he'd be physically safer.

Nah. It's who he is. PBS Frontline did a good story on this some time back.


fascinating

http://video.pbs.org/video/1946795242/
0 Replies
 
jespah
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Aug, 2013 06:23 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

jespah wrote:
I saw that. I wonder if at least a part of the motivation might be a thought that being in a women's prison (or in some sort of separate accommodations for transsexuals), that he'd be physically safer.

Nah. It's who he is. PBS Frontline did a good story on this some time back.


Thanks; I didn't know that.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Aug, 2013 02:28 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
My brain doesn't shift gears that fast.


Your brain shifts mighty fast whenever you need a lie, Oralboy, which occurs regularly for you.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Aug, 2013 11:55 pm
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/356501/bradley-manning-not-woman-kevin-d-williamson

Manning is not a woman.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Aug, 2013 04:32 pm
I think that civilian men who have been taking female hormones prior to their imprisonment are allowed to continue on those while incarcerated, and they can request housing in a special unit for homosexual/transsexual inmates.

I'm not sure how that would apply to a military person, who has not been on hormones to feminize his appearance prior to his conviction. And I can't see where the government is obligated to provide treatment or surgery for any kind of sexual reassignment in Manning's case. The person is going to be housed in a facility only for male inmates, and they are not supposed to engage in any sexual activity with other inmates. If Manning wishes to use make-up, or style his hair like a female, he would be free to do that. As for the rest...he'll have a tough fight. This is pretty much uncharted territory for military prisons.

Quote:
Can Manning get hormone therapy in a U.S. military prison?

Manning is being held at the military prison in Fort Leavenworth, Kan., where the now discharged soldier is expected to serve at least seven years and up to the full sentence of 35 years.

“The Army does not provide hormone therapy or sex-reassignment surgery for gender identity disorder,” Kimberly Lewis, a spokeswoman for the prison, told NBC News.

Manning's lawyer, David Coombs, told TODAY that he's "hoping" Fort Leavenworth "would do the right thing" and provide hormone therapy for Manning. "If Fort Leavenworth does not, then I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure they are forced to do so."

Coombs said that Manning hasn't discussed whether to pursue sex-reassignment surgery while in prison.

Have other prisoners received hormone therapy or sex-change surgery?

No inmates have received sex-reassignment surgery while in U.S. prisons, though dozens of lawsuits have forced changes at the state and federal level that have opened the door to such treatment, said Jennifer Levi, director of the Transgender Rights Project for the Gay & Lesbian Advocates and Defenders, or GLAD.

In the highest-profile case so far, a Boston judge told Massachusetts officials to grant the procedure last year to a transgender prisoner, Michelle Kosilek. Kosilek, formerly known as Robert, is facing a life sentence for the 1990 murder of wife Cheryl Kosilek. Kosilek's doctors have said that surgery is the only treatment that will fully address her gender identity disorder; she attempted castration and tried to commit suicide twice while held in an all-male prison. That court decision is pending on appeal. Kosilek has already received hormone therapy and laser hair removal.

Other inmates have received hormone therapy and other care for transgender issues. Under old rules, transgender inmates housed by the federal Bureau of Prisons were treated only for their existing conditions when they were admitted to prison. If they took hormones, for instance, that was maintained. But in 2010, after a lawsuit, the prison bureau changed its policy to allow treatment and care for problems diagnosed after incarceration. “Treatment options will not be precluded solely due to the level of services received, or lack of services, prior to incarceration,” the new policy states. That opens the door to new options, including surgery.

Very little is known about transgender inmates in military prisons, advocates say. Manning's request may even be unprecedented.

How often does this happen?

No one knows how many of the nearly 2.3 million prisoners in the U.S. are identified as transgender. A 2010 study by the California Department of Corrections identified more than 330 transgender inmates in a population of about 160,000, equal to about 0.2 percent. But the National Center for Transgender Equality estimates that the actual figure may be much higher. When that group surveyed transgender people in 2011, officials found that 16 percent of nearly 6,500 respondents reported that they’d been jailed at some time in their lives.

Why is this the prison's problem?

Doctors who treat transgender people and advocates who lobby on their behalf say that inmates are legally entitled to health care while incarcerated -- including services for gender identity issues.

“Treatment for people with severe gender dysphoria is medically necessary,” said Dr. Sherman Leis of the Philadelphia Center for Transgender Surgery, who performs sex-change operations three days a week.

Just as diabetics need insulin and people with heart problems need surgery, inmates with gender identity-related health problems require the most appropriate treatment, said Mara Keisling, executive director of the National Center for Transgender Equality.

“This is America; we do not deny prisoners health care,” Keisling said. “What happens if they break a leg while they’re in custody? What happens if they develop schizophrenia? It is illegal to withhold those treatments.”

What kind of ‘treatment’ are we talking about?

For those in and out of prison, switching genders is a protracted, complicated process that involves years of psychiatric counseling, hormone therapy and -- sometimes, but not always -- surgery, experts say.

Male-to-female transgender people typically take the female hormone estrogen in sufficient doses to influence the development of breasts and other secondary sex characteristics. They must receive adequate regular doses for the rest of their lives to maintain their new gender. They often also undergo laser hair removal.

If surgery is indicated, it can involve a range of procedures including removal of the original sex organs and reconstruction of new genitals. Other surgeries can include removing or augmenting breasts and reshaping facial contours, Leis said.

Coombs, Manning's lawyer, told TODAY that his client's final goal is not necessarily surgery.

"No, I think the ultimate goal is to be comfortable in her skin and to be the person that she never had an opportunity to be," Coombs said.

How much does it cost? And who pays?

Cost ranges widely from $12,000 to $30,000 or more for surgery with ongoing costs of up to $200 a month for hormone therapy and more for psychotherapy.

If a prisoner receives care while incarcerated, the taxpayers would foot the bill, advocates say.

Can this be a ploy for men to get into a women's prison?

GID is diagnosed by a doctor and the life-altering treatment must be prescribed. Besides, prisons usually go by birth gender when assigning inmates, so even after gender reassignment, a newly female prisoner could end up in a male population— or in isolation for her own protection.

Fort Leavenworth spokesman George Marcec told the Associated Press that Manning would need to petition for a transfer to a federal prison to receive hormone treatment. In addition, the prison staff can separate high-risk prisoners from the general population based on the level of security risk to the inmate and others, he added.

Officials with the United States Disciplinary Barracks said that they have procedures to ensure that Manning and any other transgender inmates are protected from abuse and assault while in custody.

"The USDB has implemented risk assessment protocols and safety procedures to address high risk factors identified with the Prison Rape Elimination Act," the agency said in a statement.

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/beginning-gender-change-prison-long-shot-6C10974050



Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2013 04:27 pm
@firefly,
"They are not supposed to engage in any sexual activity with other inmates"

But they do.

He's going to have a very "tough fight" indeed. Probably just one though. He doesn't seem much like Andy Dufresne.

0 Replies
 
 

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