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I am a Buddhist and if anyone wants to question my beliefs then they are welcome to do so...

 
 
igm
 
  1  
Fri 6 Dec, 2013 02:18 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Ahhh...I see. You are content and happy...and I am falsely thinking I am content and happy.

I said I was unconditionally happy and nothing more... you said you prefer to say you are content and not use the word happy... remember Frank? So, your quote above is inaccurate.

Frank Apisa wrote:

MY QUESTION FOR THIS RESPONSE: Do you realize how much you sound like a Christian proselytizer or a Jehovah's Witness on campaign?


Yes... I've given you my opinion which you've asked for over and over again until I gave you an answer... reluctantly... an answer I'd already given you weeks before but you'd forgotten. That is not proselytizing it is responding to repeat requests for an answer... requests coming from you Frank.

Your happiness is conditioned and that is a form of suffering because it won't last... I've already explained how, in my recent posts to you.

You are manifestly discontented and I could give you a long list of how you and most others are discontented... it's the driving force for most human activity.


Igm...Buddhism...and Buddhists...are like Christianity and Christians.

You folk all think you have THE answer...and you all spend too time trying to get others to see the "wisdom" of your answer.

Well...if it help get you past the graveyard...use it.

But my guess is I live my life with as much contentment and happiness as you (or any Buddhist)...and the contentment and happiness is of as fine a quality as anything you think you have. But by all means continue to suppose your happiness is of a superior quality...if it helps make you happy.

In any case, I stand by my comment that all you can do is to guess that the Buddha attained whatever you think he attained...and that he can teach others to attain it also.

So...I guess you just have to agree with that...and then go back to being unconditionally happy. Wink




Smile
igm
 
  1  
Sun 8 Dec, 2013 10:27 am
@igm,
@Frank Apisa

Frank Apisa wrote:

But my guess is I live my life with as much contentment and happiness as you (or any Buddhist)...and the contentment and happiness is of as fine a quality as anything you think you have.

An example of how Frank's conditioned happiness fails:
Frank Apisa wrote:
http://able2know.org/topic/141106-382#post-5514144

Weather is not very nice...golf is probably something that may be done until next spring...my sense of humor is raggedy because of that.


Unconditioned happiness does not depend on the weather or the ability to play golf, with it's long list of conditions that have to be met or golf doesn't deliver its supposed happiness... which then inevitably leads to... discontentment.

Conditioned happiness is inferior to unconditioned happiness... every time... why not start the search for the unconditioned?


Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sun 8 Dec, 2013 10:54 am
@igm,
igm wrote:

@Frank Apisa

Frank Apisa wrote:

But my guess is I live my life with as much contentment and happiness as you (or any Buddhist)...and the contentment and happiness is of as fine a quality as anything you think you have.

An example of how Frank's conditioned happiness fails:
Frank Apisa wrote:
http://able2know.org/topic/141106-382#post-5514144

Weather is not very nice...golf is probably something that may be done until next spring...my sense of humor is raggedy because of that.


Unconditioned happiness does not depend on the weather or the ability to play golf, with it's long list of conditions that have to be met or golf doesn't deliver its supposed happiness... which then inevitably leads to... discontentment.

Conditioned happiness is inferior to unconditioned happiness... every time... why not start the search for the unconditioned?


My guess is you are deluding yourself.

My further guess is that I am every bit as content and happy as you.

But if it helps make you happy to think I am not...think it. That does not disturb my happiness at all. Not being able to play golf does...but I easily handle it.
igm
 
  1  
Sun 8 Dec, 2013 12:46 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

My further guess is that I am every bit as content and happy as you.

But if it helps make you happy to think I am not...think it. That does not disturb my happiness at all. Not being able to play golf does...but I easily handle it.

It doesn't make me happy to think you are not. But you make my point by saying your conditioned happiness i.e. golf, does make you unhappy when you can't play.

It's not 'my' unconditioned happiness... it is available to all... one just has to find it.

I have a long list of reasons why conditioned happiness is inferior to the unconditioned variety and a long list of reasons why unconditioned happiness is superior. It's obvious if something is available at all times effortlessly that must be superior to something that may or may not be available if a complex set of temporary causes and conditions is assembled with all the effort required.

Once one examines open-mindedly with common sense and reason it is obvious which is preferable. Hide from it if you want but it can't be based on reason or common sense.


Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sun 8 Dec, 2013 05:03 pm
@igm,
igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

My further guess is that I am every bit as content and happy as you.

But if it helps make you happy to think I am not...think it. That does not disturb my happiness at all. Not being able to play golf does...but I easily handle it.

It doesn't make me happy to think you are not. But you make my point by saying your conditioned happiness i.e. golf, does make you unhappy when you can't play.

It's not 'my' unconditioned happiness... it is available to all... one just has to find it.

I have a long list of reasons why conditioned happiness is inferior to the unconditioned variety and a long list of reasons why unconditioned happiness is superior. It's obvious if something is available at all times effortlessly that must be superior to something that may or may not be available if a complex set of temporary causes and conditions is assembled with all the effort required.

Once one examines open-mindedly with common sense and reason it is obvious which is preferable. Hide from it if you want but it can't be based on reason or common sense.



One...I did not say I was unhappy. I said my sense of humor was raggedy. My happiness can be disturbed without lapsing into unhappiness.

Two...my guess is you are deluding yourself.

Three...my further guess is that I am every bit as content and happy as you.

Four...if it helps make you happy to think I am not...think it. That does not disturb my happiness at all. Not being able to play golf does...but I easily handle it.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Sun 8 Dec, 2013 05:07 pm
@Frank Apisa,
(W)hole in one ! Wink
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sun 8 Dec, 2013 07:24 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

(W)hole in one ! Wink


Wink
0 Replies
 
igm
 
  1  
Mon 9 Dec, 2013 07:01 am
@Frank Apisa,
Your post is mostly a repeat of your previous post... so I'll join in with a few changes and a few additions...

It doesn't make me happy to think you are not. But you make my point by showing your conditioned happiness i.e. golf, does make you unhappy when you can't play.

It's not 'my' unconditioned happiness... it is available to all... one just has to find it.

I have a long list of reasons why conditioned happiness is inferior to the unconditioned variety and a long list of reasons why unconditioned happiness is superior. It's obvious if something is available at all times effortlessly that must be superior to something that may or may not be available if a complex set of temporary causes and conditions is assembled with all the effort required... only to be lost again.

Once one examines open-mindedly with common sense and reason it is obvious which is preferable. Hide from it if you want but it can't be based on reason or common sense. I await you reasoned rebuttal.

A direct experience of the unconditioned is just that a direct experience... which is different from a delusion... if not then your life of direct experiences and everyone elses is a delusion... if delusion is direct experience and direct experience is delusion then... what does it matter and how can we ever tell one from the other?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 9 Dec, 2013 07:20 am
@igm,
igm wrote:

Your post is mostly a repeat of your previous post... so I'll join in with a few changes and a few additions...

It doesn't make me happy to think you are not. But you make my point by showing your conditioned happiness i.e. golf, does make you unhappy when you can't play.


Not being able to play golf does not make me unhappy. It may lessen the happiness...but it does not make me truly unhappy...or as I prefer, make me malcontent.

Quote:
It's not 'my' unconditioned happiness... it is available to all... one just has to find it.


Yes...others may share what may well be your delusion. But, igm, if it makes you happy to think your "happiness" is greater and of better quality than mine...by all means, think that.


Quote:
I have a long list of reasons why conditioned happiness is inferior to the unconditioned variety and a long list of reasons why unconditioned happiness is superior.


Yes, Catholics have long lists why their religion is superior to the inferior others...and Protestants have their lists of the same kind. Sunni do; Shias do.

Nothing to see here,folks...move on.



Quote:
It's obvious if something is available at all times effortlessly that must be superior to something that may or may not be available if a complex set of temporary causes and conditions is assembled with all the effort required... only to be lost again.


Yes, and the Church established by Jesus in his comment to Peter obviously is superior to all others.

C'mon, igm...wake up.

Quote:
Once one examines open-mindedly with common sense and reason it is obvious which is preferable. Hide from it if you want but it can't be based on reason or common sense. I await you reasoned rebuttal.


There is no reason to rebut with any reason...that which is formed without substantive reason, igm. Your religion is just a religion. I see it as guess work...and the foundation for it as gratuitous, self-serving nonsense.

Quote:
A direct experience of the unconditioned is just that a direct experience... which is different from a delusion... if not then your life of direct experiences and everyone elses is a delusion... if delusion is direct experience and direct experience is delusion then... what does it matter and how can we ever tell one from the other?



Yes...and as the Christians tell us, "Just open up your heart and mind to GOD...and he will answer and give you explanations."

But then again, so would Zeus if you opened up your heart and mind to him.

Feel good about your guesses, igm. Imagine that you actually have the answers to what REALITY actually is.

But if you do it in a public forum, expect that some will just get a kick out of it being sold as something really different.
igm
 
  1  
Mon 9 Dec, 2013 08:32 am
@Frank Apisa,
You mistake 'direct experience' i.e. happiness as dogma or concept... is your happiness a dogma or a concept? I think not... so I have a direct experience just as you do... happiness... mine is unconditional and yours is conditional... just that and nothing else... it's one happiness but I know how to access it all the time and you know how to access it by manipulating temporary causes and conditions.. a hit and miss affair that is extremely transient...

We both have the same experience Frank... yours is transient and the one I offer you is not... the non-transient one is superior because it is non-transient as opposed to transient.

Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 9 Dec, 2013 08:44 am
@igm,
igm wrote:

You mistake 'direct experience' i.e. happiness as dogma or concept... is your happiness a dogma or a concept? I think not... so I have a direct experience just as you do... happiness... mine is unconditional and yours is conditional... just that and nothing else... it's one happiness but I know how to access it all the time and you know how to access it by manipulating temporary causes and conditions.. a hit and miss affair that is extremely transient...

We both have the same experience Frank... yours is transient and the one I offer you is not... the non-transient one is superior because it is non-transient as opposed to transient.




If it makes you happy to think you have a happiness that is qualitatively or quantitatively better than mine...please do so.

I want to be as content as possible...just as I am content.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Sat 14 Dec, 2013 10:30 pm
IGM, I want to commend you on the courage and generosity you have shown in this thread.
igm
 
  1  
Sun 15 Dec, 2013 12:57 pm
@JLNobody,
Your kind words are always welcome!
0 Replies
 
igm
 
  1  
Fri 24 Jan, 2014 04:43 am
http://able2know.org/topic/174783-43#post-5560278

http://able2know.org/topic/174783-44#post-5560689

http://able2know.org/topic/174783-44#post-5561232
igm
 
  1  
Tue 28 Jan, 2014 04:18 am
@igm,
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/24/mattieu-ricard-buddhist-m_n_4658712.html
IRFRANK
 
  2  
Tue 28 Jan, 2014 01:13 pm
@igm,
Thank you for that link.
igm
 
  1  
Tue 28 Jan, 2014 02:51 pm
@IRFRANK,
Smile
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Sat 1 Feb, 2014 09:30 pm
IGM,

I suspect that if you asked Frank :

- 'Do you know if unconditional happiness can exist?', that he would answer 'I do not know'; or

- 'if unconditional happiness could exist - could the path to it be explained in words?', that he would answer 'I do not know'
igm
 
  1  
Sun 2 Feb, 2014 06:31 am
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:

IGM,

I suspect that if you asked Frank :

- 'Do you know if unconditional happiness can exist?', that he would answer 'I do not know'; or

- 'if unconditional happiness could exist - could the path to it be explained in words?', that he would answer 'I do not know'

Why do you suspect that?
0 Replies
 
igm
 
  1  
Sun 2 Feb, 2014 06:39 am
@IRFRANK,
IRFRANK wrote:

Thank you for that link.

Was the article interesting to you and why?
 

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