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Are atheists being more illogical than agnostics?

 
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Wed 22 Jan, 2014 11:43 am
Returning to this thread's title 'Are atheists being more illogical than agnostics?' it's pretty obvious that ags have got the intellectual high ground there.
I mean, aths say "There's no God" without a shred of evidence to back up that statement, but ags say "There might be a God, or there might not be", which seems a much more logical neutral stance to me..Smile
igm
 
  1  
Wed 22 Jan, 2014 04:45 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Returning to this thread's title 'Are atheists being more illogical than agnostics?' it's pretty obvious that ags have got the intellectual high ground there.
I mean, aths say "There's no God" without a shred of evidence to back up that statement,...

Some atheists do but most at A2k don't... your assertion is incorrect because it is a false assumption to imply all atheists say, "There's no God". My guess is you knew that... and are just trying to get a... bite Wink

My view (conventionally) is, it doesn't matter whether there is a god or not... it is irrelevant and that is at least as logical as the agnostic position.

There is a benefit to letting go of the notion that there is a god but no benefit to being an agnostic because it seems to be IMO... sterile 'fence sitting'.
igm
 
  1  
Wed 22 Jan, 2014 04:50 pm
@igm,
Amended my last post... by adding a few more words.
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Wed 22 Jan, 2014 04:55 pm
@igm,
Quote:
Romeo observed: aths say "There's no God" without a shred of evidence to back up that statement,...
IGM replied: Some atheists do but most at A2k don't


Ah, so Atheism is split into as many sub-divisions as christianity..Smile
igm
 
  1  
Wed 22 Jan, 2014 04:58 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Quote:
Romeo observed: aths say "There's no God" without a shred of evidence to back up that statement,...
IGM replied: Some atheists do but most at A2k don't


Ah, so Atheism is split into as many sub-divisions as christianity..Smile

Is it? Does it matter? IMO, no it doesn't matter. You haven't rebutted what I've said you've just avoided rebutting it... Why make an assertion if you can't or won't defend it? Or are you implying your assertion was wrong?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 22 Jan, 2014 05:02 pm
@igm,
igm wrote:

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Returning to this thread's title 'Are atheists being more illogical than agnostics?' it's pretty obvious that ags have got the intellectual high ground there.
I mean, aths say "There's no God" without a shred of evidence to back up that statement,...

Some atheists do but most at A2k don't... your assertion is incorrect because it is a false assumption to imply all atheists say, "There's no God". My guess is you knew that... and are just trying to get a... bite Wink

My view (conventionally) is, it doesn't matter whether there is a god or not... it is irrelevant and that is at least as logical as the agnostic position.

There is a benefit to letting go of the notion that there is a god but no benefit to being an agnostic because it seems to be IMO... sterile 'fence sitting'.


Yeah...people like you who think they actually KNOW what the REALITY is...probably think that people who acknowledge that they do not know...

...are fence sitting.

Jeez!

I guess some see it as sad that some people cannot work up the guts to acknowledge that they do not know the things they do not know...

...but I see it as hilarious. Wink
0 Replies
 
igm
 
  1  
Wed 22 Jan, 2014 05:03 pm
Yawnnnn...
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 22 Jan, 2014 05:12 pm
@igm,
igm wrote:

Yawnnnn...


Yeah...I guess being told the truth is boring to people like you, igm.

Lemme bore you a bit more:

Your pretense that you know the REALITY is hilarious. And that must be particularly vexing considering you pretend to know there is no you; there is no me; there is no world; there is no self...and all that other stuff that isn't.

Your turn to yawn.

0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Wed 22 Jan, 2014 06:46 pm
@igm,
Quote:

There is a benefit to letting go of the notion that there is a god but no benefit to being an agnostic because it seems to be IMO... sterile 'fence sitting'.


You are agnostic Igm are you not? If you do have knowledge that there is a God please share it, or do you "believe" there is a God?
carnaticmystery
 
  1  
Thu 23 Jan, 2014 12:59 am
@igm,
Quote:
I don't agree with how you express all of your relative truths but I agree that it makes relative sense and is definitely far from nonsense (which both Frank and Oli seem to believe it is)

what don't you agree with? the swearing and aggression? it seems that you need to believe that non duality means peace and calm, which is only one end of the duality of emotions.

Quote:
and on the subject of non-duality, I can hardly find anything to disagree with, in relation to your choice of how to explain it using the tools of conventional/relative truth.... which of course are the only tools available.

i simply believe the non dual state is the only way to 'convey' non duality. olivier simply states the obvious that 'non duality can never be captured in words or symbols'. but who cares? it can be captured in words and symbols, to the EXTENT that they have meaning and exist. it is only that non duality supersedes all these concepts, that doesn't mean it cannot be expressed with them.
0 Replies
 
carnaticmystery
 
  1  
Thu 23 Jan, 2014 01:06 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I face absurdity all the time...stare it straight in the face...every time I read one of your posts, CM.

Why not give it up...and stop digging?

no, staring straight in the face is not my definition of facing something. if you try and face something to defeat it, like an enemy, simply staring at it in the face won't do. you need to fight also. similarly, you don't actually face the simple absurdities i present. instead, you 'stare them in the face', then decide that they are too absurd for you, and run away.
Quote:

By the way...what makes you think that I am not searching for things????

every word you utter. which boils down to 'i don't know' being definitely the best philosophy on ultimate reality. which means you are not searching for anything, ultimately. now this is always a lie, because the very human intellect can never do this, it is always deeply searching. but consciously deciding that you will never find out the truth (agnosticism) is pretty much stretching the limit of how long you have to be ignorant.
Quote:
Well...it sounds more like you trying to offer your religion and beliefs as revelations, but maybe the sound of all that constant digging is interfering with your ability to hear.

mm yes. when everything i have said has opposed all religions, concepts, belief systems, i guess that does all equate to 'sounding like' i am trying to offer all those things. yep, its definitely my 'hearing' which is going bad.

carnaticmystery
 
  1  
Thu 23 Jan, 2014 01:10 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
cm hardly ever explained what he meant by relative truths and all these levels of reality, or levels of consciousness. It's all very vague, conveniently so.

really dumbfuck? actually i explained to you repeatedly that all truths are relative, there is no ultimate truth. pretty simple explanation. but nooo, cm never explained that ****. and vague? how is that vague? one hundred percent specific. every single truth you can conceptualise is relative, except the paradoxical one that there is no ultimate truth, which is WHAT MAKES all the others relative only.

Quote:
The point is: one cannot express something like "non-duality", because to express is to paint a mind's view of something. To REpresent. To picture. To tell. A mind is required to view and tell; and a medium of expression too, different from the thing that is being told or pictured. And here you are deep in dualist territory.

congrats, dumbfuck, on pointing out the obvious. we all know that ULTIMATELY non duality can never be expressed, just like nothing can ultimately be expressed. every concept is just a concept. you can't express an apple in words either, but you can try and use many words, and get a good picture of it in your head. if there was no way of ever getting a real apple anymore, would you conclude that there is no point talking about it, because it cannot be expressed in words? no, dumbfuck. similarly, you can still talk about non duality in order to try to relatively understand what cannot be expressed ultimately. in doing so, the thing that cannot be expressed has a greater possibility of expressing ITSELF more.
igm
 
  1  
Thu 23 Jan, 2014 03:29 am
@reasoning logic,
I just don't care... and there are benefits to not caring... let go of the notion that there is a god... that's it... no need to go any further... one can (given the correct set of circumstances) then experience unconditioned happiness free from apparent suffering.... I have many reasons why this is the best course of action and why it is more likely there isn't a creator god... the benefit is as explained above.

To not rule out that there may be gods or a creator god is a waste of time with no benefit IMO... no only that it prevents transcendence of concepts and language... which is a barrier to unconditioned happiness.... which I experience and you do also but choose to ignore (innately).
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 23 Jan, 2014 06:37 am
@carnaticmystery,
carnaticmystery wrote:

Quote:
I face absurdity all the time...stare it straight in the face...every time I read one of your posts, CM.

Why not give it up...and stop digging?

no, staring straight in the face is not my definition of facing something. if you try and face something to defeat it, like an enemy, simply staring at it in the face won't do. you need to fight also. similarly, you don't actually face the simple absurdities i present. instead, you 'stare them in the face', then decide that they are too absurd for you, and run away.


Ahhh...so you think I run away.

Jesus...you are so funny...I love ya!

I'll try not to run away like I have been doing! Drunk

Fact is, just in case you missed the sarcasm...I am right here and will be every step of the way. I will never leave you, CM...not for a second. I never have. If you think that I have run away from you...you really are living a dream existence.


Quote:
Quote:

By the way...what makes you think that I am not searching for things????

every word you utter. which boils down to 'i don't know' being definitely the best philosophy on ultimate reality. which means you are not searching for anything, ultimately. now this is always a lie, because the very human intellect can never do this, it is always deeply searching. but consciously deciding that you will never find out the truth (agnosticism) is pretty much stretching the limit of how long you have to be ignorant.


The fact that I acknowledge I do not know the answers to Ultimate questions...does NOT mean I am not searching. You are really grasping at straws with nonsense like that. I acknowledge I do not know those kinds of answers....BECAUSE I DO NOT KNOW THEM.

But good luck with that kind of thinking. It's gotten you this far, which is to what...sixth grade?

Quote:

Quote:
Well...it sounds more like you trying to offer your religion and beliefs as revelations, but maybe the sound of all that constant digging is interfering with your ability to hear.

mm yes. when everything i have said has opposed all religions, concepts, belief systems, i guess that does all equate to 'sounding like' i am trying to offer all those things. yep, its definitely my 'hearing' which is going bad.


Drunk Drunk
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 23 Jan, 2014 06:39 am
@carnaticmystery,
carnaticmystery wrote:

Quote:
cm hardly ever explained what he meant by relative truths and all these levels of reality, or levels of consciousness. It's all very vague, conveniently so.

really dumbfuck? actually i explained to you repeatedly that all truths are relative, there is no ultimate truth. pretty simple explanation. but nooo, cm never explained that ****. and vague? how is that vague? one hundred percent specific. every single truth you can conceptualise is relative, except the paradoxical one that there is no ultimate truth, which is WHAT MAKES all the others relative only.


Wow...you really cannot see how absurd that is!

Amazing.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Thu 23 Jan, 2014 08:02 am
@igm,
Are you experiencing unconditioned happiness, igm?
igm
 
  1  
Thu 23 Jan, 2014 11:03 am
@Olivier5,
It seems that is the case.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 23 Jan, 2014 11:55 am
@Olivier5,
Of course, even if he is in misery...he considers it to be unconditioned happiness...because his religion demands that he do so.
0 Replies
 
igm
 
  1  
Thu 23 Jan, 2014 12:25 pm
I'm not replying to Frank but he's making stuff up in order to get my attention... he is a bore in my opinion. If he wasn't making stuff up he'd show us the proof of his assertions... which he never does.... because he has none... yawnnn... Zzzzzzzzzzz
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 23 Jan, 2014 12:34 pm
@igm,
igm wrote:

I'm not replying to Frank but he's making stuff up in order to get my attention... he is a bore in my opinion. If he wasn't making stuff up he'd show us the proof of his assertions... which he never does.... because he has none... yawnnn... Zzzzzzzzzzz


Yeah, you are replying to me, igm...but you just don't have the balls to address it to me. But several of your posts...including this one...really were replying to me.

I am getting a huge kick out of your pretending that you are not, though...so stick with it.

And I do not make stuff up about you, igm. You offer too much material for anyone to have to do that.

Wink Very Happy
0 Replies
 
 

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