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GRAMMAR QUESTION UK

 
 
Reply Wed 7 Aug, 2013 06:48 am
Hi from a new member!

I am an author-publisher in the UK so UK grammar rules, please :-)

When writing about buildings with names, which capitalisation is correct?

The context would be a sentence such as "She walked to St George's Church" etc.

St George's Church or St George's church?

St Peter's School or St Peter's school?

Southwark Police Station or Southwark police station?

Clapham Junction Station or Clapham Junction station?

Could it be possible that church needs a capital but station does not - and if so, why?

Can anyone help me to sort this out please?

Cheers
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Type: Question • Score: 4 • Views: 1,107 • Replies: 9
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View best answer, chosen by bundlywundly
fresco
 
  2  
Reply Wed 7 Aug, 2013 12:02 pm
@bundlywundly,
Wikipedia suggests "inconsistency" with respect to capitalization.
My gut reaction as a UK resident, is to capitalize "School" and "Church" because their preceding words anthropomorphically imply "associative personification", but not in the case of "station".
0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
  2  
Reply Wed 7 Aug, 2013 12:44 pm
@bundlywundly,
Bund, very good q indeed; as an erstwhile journalist myself I've often wondered. My perspective is the US but I note a distinct trend away from the cap. For instance St Peters: Eg, If its official name were St Peters Academy then "school" goes LC

("Erstwhile" because sounds more impressive than "former")
0 Replies
 
contrex
  Selected Answer
 
  2  
Reply Wed 7 Aug, 2013 02:07 pm
@bundlywundly,
These are my opinions -

bundlywundly wrote:
St George's Church or St George's church?


If the word "Church" is in the full title of the place of worship, capitalise, otherwise not. Examples

St George's Church, Leeds is called "St George's Church". That is the full title. Capitalise "Church".

St Georges, Kemptown (Brighton) is called St George's. Note the comma. It is in Kemptown, and you would write "While in Kemptown I walked past St George's church". Churches are often named this way. Note however that some devout Christians automatically capitalise "Church".

Quote:
St Peter's School or St Peter's school?


If it's called St Peter's School, capitalise School. If it's the school St Peter attended, (unlikely) don't capitalise.

Quote:
Southwark Police Station or Southwark police station?


It's "Southwark Police Station" on the Metropolitan Police website.

Quote:
Clapham Junction Station or Clapham Junction station?


The name is Clapham Junction. The word "station" is not part of the name. It does not take a capital letter.

Quote:
Could it be possible that church needs a capital but station does not - and if so, why?


Church may or not be part of the name of a place of worship as I wrote above, but as far as I know, "station" is not the name of very many stations if any at all.

The above are my opinions. This is a question of style, not grammar. if you write for publication most likely your intended recipient will have a style guide. One very respected style guide is the Guardian's, (there are many others; most universities have them for academic texts) and this is what they have to say:

Link here: http://www.theguardian.com/styleguide

(I see they differ from my opinion slightly concerning churches and schools - only cap up the proper or place part of the name)

Quote:

capitals
"I am a poet: I distrust anything that starts with a capital letter and ends with a full stop" (Antjie Krog)

Times have changed since the days of medieval manuscripts with elaborate hand-illuminated capital letters, or Victorian documents in which not just proper names, but virtually all nouns, were given initial caps (a Tradition valiantly maintained to this day by Estate Agents).

A look through newspaper archives would show greater use of capitals the further back you went. The tendency towards lowercase, which in part reflects a less formal, less deferential society, has been accelerated by the explosion of the internet: some web companies, and many email users, have dispensed with capitals altogether.

Our style reflects these developments. We aim for coherence and consistency, but not at the expense of clarity. As with any aspect of style, it is impossible to be wholly consistent – there are almost always exceptions, so if you are unsure check for an individual entry in this guide. But here are the main principles:

jobs all lc, eg prime minister, US secretary of state, chief rabbi, editor of the Guardian.

titles cap up titles, but not job description, eg President Barack Obama (but the US president, Barack Obama, and Obama on subsequent mention); the Duke of Westminster (the duke at second mention); Pope Benedict XVI but the pope.


British government departments of state initial caps, eg Home Office, Foreign Office, Ministry of Justice.
See departments of state for a full list

other countries' departments of state lc, eg US state department, Russian foreign ministry.

government agencies, public bodies, quangos initial caps, eg Crown Prosecution Service, Equality and Human Rights Commission, Heritage Lottery Fund, Revenue & Customs.

acts of parliament initial caps (but bills lc), eg Official Secrets Act, Child Poverty Act 2010, local government bill.

parliamentary committees, reports and inquiries all lc, eg trade and industry select committee, royal commission on long-term care for the elderly, Jenkins report.

artistic and cultural names of institutions, etc, get initial caps, eg British Museum, National Gallery, Royal Albert Hall, Tate Modern. Books, films, music, works of art, etc have initial caps except a, an, and, at, for, from, in, of, the, to (except in initial positions or after a colon), eg There is a Light That Never Goes Out.

churches, hospitals and schools cap up the proper or placename, lc the rest, eg St Peter's church, Pembury, Great Ormond Street children's hospital, Ripon grammar school, Vernon county primary school.
universities and colleges of further and higher education caps for institution, lc for departments, eg Sheffield University department of medieval and modern history, Oregon State University, Free University of Berlin, University of Queensland school of journalism, London College of Communication.

airports cap the name but lc the generic part (if necessary at all), eg Heathrow, Gatwick (no need for "airport"), Liverpool John Lennon airport.

geographical features lc, eg river Thames, Sydney harbour, Monterey peninsula, Bondi beach, Solsbury hill (but Mount Everest).

words and phrases based on proper names that have lost connection with their origins (alsatian dog, cardigan, cheddar cheese, french windows, swiss roll, wellington boots, yorkshire pudding and many others) are lc.

Those that retain a strong link, which may be legally recognised, include Cornish pasty, Melton Mowbray pork pies, Parma ham and Worcestershire sauce, and take initial cap.

Although champagne and scotch are legally required to come from Champagne and Scotland, they are almost universally regarded as lc




0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Aug, 2013 02:56 pm
Station is totally a matter of style. On London bus timetables they capitalise it e.g Morden Station. Other places don't.
bundlywundly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Aug, 2013 07:32 am
@contrex,
Thanks everyone. I have downloaded the Guardian style guide. I like it, but "St Peter's school" still looks wrong to me!
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Aug, 2013 10:59 am
@bundlywundly,
bundlywundly wrote:
"St Peter's school" still looks wrong to me!


That's my point, (a) it's a matter of style - that is, it's a preference, not a rule, and (b) a guide is just that, a guide. You are free to write "School" if you prefer it.

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Aug, 2013 10:39 am
@bundlywundly,
Quote:
I have downloaded the Guardian style guide.


And you must remember that these style guides are just that. They often don't have anything to do with English grammar and for those times when they do address issues of English grammar, they royally screw them up.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Aug, 2013 02:29 am
You specify UK style, granted, but in the US many train stations include station as an integral part of the name, and it's capitalized: Grand Central Station in NYC, many towns had or have Union Stations (which served all the RRs that came thru that town). Boston has North Station and South Station (for respectively the RRs that came into town from the north, and from the south--they hated each other and were always trying to poach each other's traffic, so they could never agree on one joint station--it's fairly complex to get from one to the other).

I've never been there, but even insular Yanks know of Paddington Station in London. I just googled it and interestingly there seems to be a fairly even split between station and Station.
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Aug, 2013 11:39 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
I've never been there, but even insular Yanks know of Paddington Station in London. I just googled it and interestingly there seems to be a fairly even split between station and Station.


For me it's Paddington (capital P) station (small s). I would say station can have a large or small S as you please, a capital S being perhaps slightly old fashioned. In a railway context, e.g. buying a ticket, asking an employee which platform to use, telling a ticket inspector where you are going, it's either "London Paddington" (which is what you will see on the ticket) or more usually just "Paddington". Incidentally, it has been customary for a railway station to be just that, e.g. "Swindon station"; "I'm going to the station". Everybody knows what kind of station you mean. Maybe "railway station" if it is (rarely) necessary to clarify that. If a town has a bus station as well, then it takes the word 'bus' as a prefix, "Swindon bus station". Sometime in the last few years the habit has grown up among some people of talking about "train stations" which annoys the hell out of many folk, me included.
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