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Pope Francis Revolution Is Underway, Not Everyone Is Pleased

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Sep, 2013 02:06 pm
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

Probably a good thing that most of the pillars of business and industry aren't Catholic. Today he's going after the rich and powerful.

Quote:
EXTRACT OF POPE'S HOMILY
(Source: Vatican Radio)
Money sickens our minds, poisons our thoughts, even poisons our faith, leading us down the path of jealousy, quarrels, suspicion and conflict. It drives to idle words and pointless discussions. It also corrupts the mind of some people that see religion as a source of profit. 'I am Catholic, I go to Mass, everyone thinks well of me... But underneath I have my businesses. I worship money'. And here we have the word we usually find in newspapers: 'Men of corrupted minds'. Money corrupts us! There's no way out.”

“We can never serve God and money at the same time. It is not possible: either one or the other. This is not Communism. It is the true Gospel! They are the Lord's words. While money begins by offering a sense of well being. Then you feel important and vanity comes. We read in the Psalm. This vanity is useless, but still you think you are important. And after vanity comes pride. Those are the three steps: wealth, vanity and pride.”

“But, Father, I read the Ten Commandments and they say nothing about the evils of money. Against which Commandment do you sin when you do something for money? Against the first one! You worship a false idol. And this is the reason: because money becomes an idol and you worship it. And that's why Jesus tells us that you cannot serve money and the living God: either one or the other. The early Fathers of the Church, in the 3rd Century, around the year 200 or 300, put it in a very blunt way, calling money 'the dung of the devil'. An so it is. Because turns us into idolatrous, fills our thoughts with pride and leads us away from our faith.”



I'm not into the god thing...or the "serving god" thing either...but this pope is on to something.

I hope he sticks to his guns.

I hope he expands his sphere of discussion.

I hope he makes substantial changes in the way the Church operates.

I hope he has a food taster.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Sep, 2013 03:06 pm
@Frank Apisa,
When I saw the new Pope emerge on the balcony after his election my first thought was "Simple Simon".

I'm beginning to realise that he's worse than that and am trying to figure out why he was elected.

If the Church cannot be radically differentiated from other supposedly religious organisations, as it is by it's dogmas on certain personal matters, then it will be left to compete with them at theatricality and other forms of popularity contest. And it knows it.

The whole point of the Church is its unpopularity with the increasing masses being conditioned by Media into rampant ill-discipline which, I might add, can go a great deal further than it is now.

Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Sep, 2013 03:17 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

When I saw the new Pope emerge on the balcony after his election my first thought was "Simple Simon".

I'm beginning to realise that he's worse than that and am trying to figure out why he was elected.

If the Church cannot be radically differentiated from other supposedly religious organisations, as it is by it's dogmas on certain personal matters, then it will be left to compete with them at theatricality and other forms of popularity contest. And it knows it.

The whole point of the Church is its unpopularity with the increasing masses being conditioned by Media into rampant ill-discipline which, I might add, can go a great deal further than it is now.


Respectfully as I can, I disagree. The man seems to be on-the-ball...and seems intent on dragging the Church into the 21st century no matter how much kicking and screaming that it does.

If the Church is correct...the Holy Spirit was involved in the election of Francis. And calling the Holy Spirit wrong would be a form of sin against the Holy Spirit...and we all know that the Church teaches that the only unforgivable sin is one committed against the Holy Spirit.

I say we should all give Francis a chance to make his mark.
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 Sep, 2013 03:28 pm
@Frank Apisa,
And free you all from your residual guilt.

Maybe it's a trick to purge the Church of the half-hearted by seeing who reacts positively to the Pope's remarks.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Sep, 2013 03:33 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

And free you all from your residual guilt.

Maybe it's a trick to purge the Church of the half-hearted by seeing who reacts positively to the Pope's remarks.


I have no residual guilt, Spendius. Perhaps you do.

I think the guy is trying to do as good a job as possible...and to be a lot more realistic than the popes who went before...but he does have people who will fight him no matter what.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Sep, 2013 05:14 pm
@Frank Apisa,
It is not a question of fighting him.

It is a question of identity.

I have been more guilty than most by quite a margin. Defending myself with cheapskate words is not seemly. It smacks of marking my own exam papers which is something I leave to the weak minded.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Sep, 2013 05:00 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

It is not a question of fighting him.

It is a question of identity.

I have been more guilty than most by quite a margin. Defending myself with cheapskate words is not seemly. It smacks of marking my own exam papers which is something I leave to the weak minded.


Nice try, Spendius...but you are making your own exam papers with this comment of yours. So why not go all the way?
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Sat 21 Sep, 2013 07:20 am
@Frank Apisa,
Same old **** eh? Nothing to contribute except New Joisey, over the shoulder, street banter.

It is a question of identity. 80,000,000 US Catholics are not identified with the 50,000,000 abortions. Even if some of them have had one or participated in the process. They are not identified with the 50% divorce rate because a Catholic marriage is forever no matter what the civic authorities say. And they are not identified with artificial birth control, that most anti-woman of measures, even if some of them make use of it. And they are not identified with women priests because the Church was invented precisely to eradicate priestesses who had had a good run without ever seriously getting out of the starting blocks.

It has nothing to do with me of course. I'm not marking my own exam papers. I explained to anybody with half a brain that I was doing the exact opposite. I'm not trying to justify my past errors. I'm ashamed of them. They were anti-social and I'm glad the majority of men were able to resist the temptations I succumbed too.

If you can't justify libertinage you are nowhere.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Sep, 2013 07:24 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Same old **** eh? Nothing to contribute except New Joisey, over the shoulder, street banter.

It is a question of identity. 80,000,000 US Catholics are not identified with the 50,000,000 abortions. Even if some of them have had one or participated in the process. They are not identified with the 50% divorce rate because a Catholic marriage is forever no matter what the civic authorities say. And they are not identified with artificial birth control, that most anti-woman of measures, even if some of them make use of it. And they are not identified with women priests because the Church was invented precisely to eradicate priestesses who had had a good run without ever seriously getting out of the starting blocks.

It has nothing to do with me of course. I'm not marking my own exam papers. I explained to anybody with half a brain that I was doing the exact opposite. I'm not trying to justify my past errors. I'm ashamed of them. They were anti-social and I'm glad the majority of men were able to resist the temptations I succumbed too.

If you can't justify libertinage you are nowhere.


You just cannot get over your obsession with me, can you, Spendius?

Nice try, though. Two whole posts before you fell apart.

Gotta love ya...every bone in your head. Wink
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Sat 21 Sep, 2013 10:43 am
@Frank Apisa,
Turn it up eh old chap.

You have accused euro of getting overexcited.

My first post was addressed to the thread.

You have got in your ancient cigar jest.

You insist I have something to worry about over and above what you have.

And assert that I'm obsessed with you. And that I fell apart.

I have specifically stated that I don't cover up the cracks with pink-flowered wallpaper. Which is the opposite of me marking my own exam paper.

You have avoided comment on any of the points I've raised.

And you are frit of defending libertinage. I presume you fondly believe that the outcome of the reforms you favour will come to rest in a condition you find acceptable. They wont. They are already way past your lower middle class sensibilities by a very considerable distance.

Considering that you already have acceptability for abortion, artificial birth control, divorce, adultery and homosexuality it looks like you are obsessed with the Catholic Church.

Why don't you try contributing something other than self-justifying blurts?
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Sat 21 Sep, 2013 10:48 am
@Frank Apisa,
I said that it has nothing to do with me just as the method of preparing a patch of ground to grow "in form" produce has nothing to do with me.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Sat 21 Sep, 2013 11:07 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Turn it up eh old chap.

You have accused euro of getting overexcited.

My first post was addressed to the thread.

You have got in your ancient cigar jest.

You insist I have something to worry about over and above what you have.

And assert that I'm obsessed with you. And that I fell apart.

I have specifically stated that I don't cover up the cracks with pink-flowered wallpaper. Which is the opposite of me marking my own exam paper.

You have avoided comment on any of the points I've raised.

And you are frit of defending libertinage. I presume you fondly believe that the outcome of the reforms you favour will come to rest in a condition you find acceptable. They wont. They are already way past your lower middle class sensibilities by a very considerable distance.

Considering that you already have acceptability for abortion, artificial birth control, divorce, adultery and homosexuality it looks like you are obsessed with the Catholic Church.

Why don't you try contributing something other than self-justifying blurts?


You've got to work on that obsession you have with me, Spendius.

And then you ought really to work on those sexual hangups.

You were doing so well...for what???...two days!
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Sat 21 Sep, 2013 01:59 pm
@Frank Apisa,
You are obsessed with yourself. Nobody else is.

You sound like one of those nervous females who report being stalked to the cops who get a bit embarrassed listening to her tangential claims to irresistible sexual allure.

What's your objection to the horticulture metaphor? All social engineering implies that the engineers think of mass human organisms as crops. You're a hybrid. A cross between a Christian and a liberal free-thinker who doesn't know what real free-thinking is.

Prof Hostadter, a nearly serious liberal free-thinker, in writing about these delicate matters, wrote--

Quote:
No doubt, the militant fundamentalists were a minority in the country, but they were a substantial minority; and their animus plainly reflected the feelings of still larger numbers, who, however reluctant to join in their reactionary crusade, none the less shared their disquiet about the trend of the times, (the 20s), their fear of the cosmopolitan mentality, of critical intelligence, of experimentalism in morals and literature.


He appended a note to that--

Quote:
This concern with morals might bear further examination. As fundamentalists saw it, the loss of faith among their children would be only the preliminary to a loss of morals. They had a good deal to say about the "sensuality" inherent in the notion that man has descended from lower forms of life, and their rhetoric suggested to what a degree sexual fears, as well as others, were mobilized in this controversy.


And he was a leftie. A commie once. He left the Party because of events in Moscow as if they were a reason to abandon doctrinaire socialism.

How would you say the distrust the fundies showed and the general disquiet in the wider population is panning out 80 years on? The vast bulk of occupations associated with the problems arising will be held by Democrats. In the UK they are a vanguard to be reckoned with and have Media on the end of a string.

Perhaps your side are eager for some "sensuality" deriving from our genetic endowment. The US was declared quickest on the job by an international survey. 7 minutes. Which doesn't even count. Calling that "making love" is quite a feat of MYOEP. It takes half an hour to slow down a modern lady's eye blink rate.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Sep, 2013 02:18 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

You are obsessed with yourself. Nobody else is.

You sound like one of those nervous females who report being stalked to the cops who get a bit embarrassed listening to her tangential claims to irresistible sexual allure.

What's your objection to the horticulture metaphor? All social engineering implies that the engineers think of mass human organisms as crops. You're a hybrid. A cross between a Christian and a liberal free-thinker who doesn't know what real free-thinking is.

Prof Hostadter, a nearly serious liberal free-thinker, in writing about these delicate matters, wrote--

Quote:
No doubt, the militant fundamentalists were a minority in the country, but they were a substantial minority; and their animus plainly reflected the feelings of still larger numbers, who, however reluctant to join in their reactionary crusade, none the less shared their disquiet about the trend of the times, (the 20s), their fear of the cosmopolitan mentality, of critical intelligence, of experimentalism in morals and literature.


He appended a note to that--

Quote:
This concern with morals might bear further examination. As fundamentalists saw it, the loss of faith among their children would be only the preliminary to a loss of morals. They had a good deal to say about the "sensuality" inherent in the notion that man has descended from lower forms of life, and their rhetoric suggested to what a degree sexual fears, as well as others, were mobilized in this controversy.


And he was a leftie. A commie once. He left the Party because of events in Moscow as if they were a reason to abandon doctrinaire socialism.

How would you say the distrust the fundies showed and the general disquiet in the wider population is panning out 80 years on? The vast bulk of occupations associated with the problems arising will be held by Democrats. In the UK they are a vanguard to be reckoned with and have Media on the end of a string.

Perhaps your side are eager for some "sensuality" deriving from our genetic endowment. The US was declared quickest on the job by an international survey. 7 minutes. Which doesn't even count. Calling that "making love" is quite a feat of MYOEP. It takes half an hour to slow down a modern lady's eye blink rate.


Still obsessed with me.

Oh, well...maybe doing your drinking a bit faster will help.

Beware of the females.
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Sat 21 Sep, 2013 03:13 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Beware of the females.


I do. Anybody who doesn't hasn't met the real thing yet.
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  2  
Reply Thu 14 Nov, 2013 02:15 pm
http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2013-11/enhanced/webdr02/14/11/enhanced-buzz-wide-26485-1384447594-17.jpg
6 Comics You’ll Only Get If You’re Catholic
http://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall/6-comics-youll-only-get-if-youre-catholic
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Nov, 2013 03:55 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Ditto, Frank.
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2013 10:10 pm
Article quote in first post: "Pope Francis said women must have a greater role — not as priests, but a place in the church that recognizes that Mary is more important than any of the apostles"
-------------------------------------------------------------
Aha so Popey is not so perfect after all!
He says women can't be priests, so obviously he doesn't think they're as equal as men, which is in direct contradiction of this verse-
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:28 )

And to say Mary is more important than the disciples is pure satanic rubbish because nowhere does Jesus say it, and nowhere does Jesus say people should pray to his mum!
Satan must be chuckling thinking "ha ha i've diverted peoples attention away from Jesus to his mother!"
No doubt Mary was a nice girl, but she wasn't much help to poor Fredo-

Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Nov, 2013 06:25 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Article quote in first post: "Pope Francis said women must have a greater role — not as priests, but a place in the church that recognizes that Mary is more important than any of the apostles"
-------------------------------------------------------------
Aha so Popey is not so perfect after all!
He says women can't be priests, so obviously he doesn't think they're as equal as men, which is in direct contradiction of this verse-
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:28 )

And to say Mary is more important than the disciples is pure satanic rubbish because nowhere does Jesus say it, and nowhere does Jesus say people should pray to his mum!
Satan must be chuckling thinking "ha ha i've diverted peoples attention away from Jesus to his mother!"
No doubt Mary was a nice girl, but she wasn't much help to poor Fredo-

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MlFTjvSGNc&feature=player_detailpage[/youtube]


Damn...Jesus wrote Galatians???

And all this time I thought it was Paul.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Nov, 2013 07:07 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
Quote:
He says women can't be priests,


Well--they can't Romeo. They would be priestesses. Men can't be women.

And from what little that has come down the grapevine concerning priestesses, most of it having been played down, suggests that we ought to think twice before trying it again.

But I must admit that if the Church no longer matters in modern life then whether you have or don't have priestesses doesn't matter either. Or what nomenclature is applied.

The sweet, pretty things who have so far been fronting the campaign are not typical. They have political considerations in mind. They are thrumming. It's an issue to get on Newsnight with and turn all the fluffy heads. Possibly that is the entirety of it.
0 Replies
 
 

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