12
   

EU's Hostile Fixation on Israeli Settlements

 
 
Moment-in-Time
 
  1  
Wed 24 Jul, 2013 03:05 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:

Moment-in-Time wrote:
Indeed, Palestinians are just as much a semitic people as are Jews; however, in the vernacularism of the day, when one is referring to anti-Semitism, it is generally understood and accepted as directed primarily towards Jews.


izzythepush wrote:
Quote:

In America yes, and perhaps throughout Europe, but not in the Middle East.


The reality that Jew and Arab are Semites never enters the picture in the Middle east as their shared origin is overridden by the current conflict....the Arabs see Jews as the European interlopers, the enemy, taking land that has belonged to Arabs for generations. The European Zionist Jews perceive the Palestinians as an obstacle to the land they want.

I recall reading when Modern Israel wanted to join the UN. The UN had seen how expansionist Israel were and offered a deal to them, that is if they would not try to co-opt Jerusalem, that is leave it as an *Open City* for all religions, then they would allow Israel to join the UN. Modern Israel swore up and down they would not touch Jerusalem. Hence, they were allowed to join the United Nations.

Very Happy No sooner was Israel made a member of the UN and the Zionist nation reneged on its problem. It declared Jerusalem the capital of Israel. In effect it gave the UN the finger, saying "screw you, UN! "

I recall vividly another time when George Herbert Walker Bush asked Israel to stop building settlements in the West Bank to Yitzak Shamir, the tiny MP of Israel. Shamir was here in Washington seeking a 10 Billion loan guarantee to bring in Russian and Ethiopian Falasha Jews. Bush said he would not grant them their request of a 10 Billion dollar loan guarantee until they quit building settlements in the West Bank.

The tiny little Israeli Prime Minister almost went berserk, screaming at the top of his itty-bitty lungs that "no power on earth would prevent Israel from building anywhere it wanted to on the West Bank!"

Later that day and the day afterwards, Jewish American supporters descended on Washington and its congressional offices, demanding they make the US president change his rhetoric and give Israel what it demanded.

President George Herbert Walker Bush came before the American people and said: "Here I am, just one little guy, and Israel's supporters are trying to make me change my decision on their settlement building in Israel."

The American people heard their president and there was a screeching backlash against Israel. There was one Jewish American prominent woman in New York who declared after receiving anonymous threatening phone calls, that she had never been so afraid in all her life. Tires were slashed in predominantly Jewish neighborhoods and Synagogues were smeared with Swastikas.

The Zionists received their 10 billion dollar loan guarantee but only under the next president, President Bill Clinton.
Advocate
 
  0  
Wed 24 Jul, 2013 04:09 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
You are lying when you say that Israel reneged on a promise regarding Jerusalem.

From the founding of Israel, it lived in only a part of the city, with the rest of the city shut off to Israelis. Israel lived with the constant attacks coming from the Pals until the '67 war, when it took control of the entire city, making it an open city for all. The Pals had desecrated the Western Wall area, paved over historic Jewish cemeteries, and otherwise damaged the the city.
Moment-in-Time
 
  1  
Wed 24 Jul, 2013 04:30 pm
@Advocate,
Even Israel's puppet, the US, has never moved its embassy to Jerusalem but kept it in Tel Aviv.

Quote:
Positions on Jerusalem
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jerusalem

There are differing legal and diplomatic positions on Jerusalem held within the international community.[1] Scholars are divided over the legal status of Jerusalem under international law.[2] No country in the world has recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital. Many do not recognize it as a city that is properly Israel's. Many UN member states formally adhere to the United Nations proposal that Jerusalem should have an international status.[3]

The chief dispute revolves around Israel's occupation of East Jerusalem, while broader agreement exists regarding the Israeli presence in West Jerusalem.[2] De jure, the majority of UN member states and most international organisations do not recognise Israel's ownership of East Jerusalem which occurred after the 1967 Six Day War, nor its 1980 Jerusalem Law proclamation, which declared a "complete and united" Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.[4] As a result, foreign embassies are generally located in Tel Aviv and its suburbs.

Jerusalem is a contentious issue in final status peace talks between Israel and Palestine, both of which claim Jerusalem as their capital.[5] Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has stated that "Jerusalem belongs to the Jewish people and will remain under Israeli sovereignty for eternity."[6]

Other organizations and communities advocate that Jerusalem should be an international city.[7]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positions_on_Jerusalem
Advocate
 
  0  
Wed 24 Jul, 2013 06:47 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Israel is not concerned about the views of the UN and its supporters.

At the outset of the '48 war, the UN paved the way for the invading Arab armies to capture and destroy Israel. The UN turned over its facilities, and even weapons, to the Arab invaders. Accordingly, Israel is not going to be very concerned about the views of the UN, et al.
Thomas
 
  3  
Wed 24 Jul, 2013 07:08 pm
@Advocate,
Ambassador Baker, as quoted by Advocate, wrote:
This unprecedented and hostile EU fixation with Israel and its settlements is based on a series of long-standing and deliberately misleading and flawed legal and political assumptions regarding the illegality of Israel's settlements and the status of the pre-1967 armistice lines as Israel's border.

Notice that in his entire 2,200-word article, the ambassador does not cite any accepted principle of international law by which Israel does have a valid claim on the West Bank. Funny how this oversight happened.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Wed 24 Jul, 2013 09:50 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
You keep talking about how much you know about a number of things, but you never illustrate it, Oralboy. You just stamp your feet and claim to know a bunch of things.

Nope. I post with great knowledge all the time.

It might not come into play when I'm responding to your insults, but that doesn't mean it doesn't come into play when I'm responding to enlightened conversation.

You're smart enough to engage in enlightened conversation. Why don't you elevate your standards and see what happens.


JTT wrote:
You don't seem to even know enough about the English language to realize that your paraphrase is nowhere close to what Izzy stated.

Wrong. Izzythepush is stupid and violent, and little else. His allegations against me were little more than a list of his own traits.


JTT wrote:
Or, it's just another Oralloy fabrication/lie.

You can't show a single untrue thing I've ever posted.
JTT
 
  1  
Wed 24 Jul, 2013 10:00 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Hey, MiT, you were following me. What happened? Did you cave under pressure from the A2K thread police?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 24 Jul, 2013 10:16 pm
@InfraBlue,
Good response, InfraBlue. Point by point challenge that smashes their lies and their claim of blaming the EU for their crimes of stealing other people's lands/property and promising compromise that never happens.



0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Wed 24 Jul, 2013 10:28 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
Nope. I post with great knowledge all the time.


Just did a quick sweep of this thread, Oralboy. There was zero knowledge posted by you. There was quite a bit of foot stamping and some outrageous lies but that was to be expected.
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Thu 25 Jul, 2013 02:21 am
@Moment-in-Time,
Moment-in-Time wrote:
The American people heard their president and there was a screeching backlash against Israel. There was one Jewish American prominent woman in New York who declared after receiving anonymous threatening phone calls, that she had never been so afraid in all her life. Tires were slashed in predominantly Jewish neighborhoods and Synagogues were smeared with Swastikas.


That's disgraceful, Nazi shits don't help the Palestinian cause in any way. I hope those responsible were caught and punished.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Thu 25 Jul, 2013 02:23 am
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:

Israel is not concerned about the views of the UN and its supporters.


Or international law in general, human rights, justice.

Have you got your kidney yet?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 25 Jul, 2013 03:16 am
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:

Israel is not concerned about the views of the UN and its supporters.
That might well be ... by those, who belong to the (extreme) right.
Hagit Ofran of the Peace Now movement wrote an excellent article about this ("The challenge and chance of the Israeli peace camp") in the latest Fabian Policy Report ("Refection and Renewal") ...

In the same pamphlet, Hannah Weisfeld, director of Yachad, writes:
Quote:
For the majority of people, who are concerned by a 46-year-old occupation, seeing that there is a healthy debate inside Anglo-Jewry and of course Israel itself, is crucial. For there is a great difference between supporting the right of Israel to exist and supporting the policies of any one government.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 25 Jul, 2013 11:27 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
In the same pamphlet, Hannah Weisfeld, director of Yachad, writes:
Quote:
For the majority of people, who are concerned by a 46-year-old occupation, seeing that there is a healthy debate inside Anglo-Jewry and of course Israel itself, is crucial. For there is a great difference between supporting the right of Israel to exist and supporting the policies of any one government.


The real question is not about supporting the policies of any one government, but "HOW THEY GOVERN."

The US support of Israel shows how deranged our government is about human rights.

I wrote to President Obama about lifting the blockade against Cuba, and he wrote back and said "not until their government provides more freedoms."

What a joke.
JTT
 
  1  
Thu 25 Jul, 2013 11:49 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
I wrote to President Obama about lifting the blockade against Cuba, and he wrote back and said "not until their government provides more freedoms."

What a joke.


He wasn't joking, CI.

He meant more freedom for the US government to turn the Cuban people back into slaves and prostitutes.

He meant more freedom for the US government to dismantle their excellent health care programs.

He meant more freedom for the US government to help American businesses once again, rape and pillage the Cuban economy.

He meant more freedom for the US government to install their own brutal dictator to ensure more freedom for the Cuban people.

Why didn't you tell him to get up to speed on the history of the US vis a vis other nations?

Why didn't you point out to him that in no case where the US has invaded, always illegally, other sovereign nations, did the people end up better off?

Why didn't you point up to him that he was being as hypocritical as all the previous terrorist/war criminal prezes that had come before him?
Advocate
 
  1  
Thu 25 Jul, 2013 11:59 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Quote:
In the same pamphlet, Hannah Weisfeld, director of Yachad, writes:
Quote:
For the majority of people, who are concerned by a 46-year-old occupation, seeing that there is a healthy debate inside Anglo-Jewry and of course Israel itself, is crucial. For there is a great difference between supporting the right of Israel to exist and supporting the policies of any one government.


The real question is not about supporting the policies of any one government, but "HOW THEY GOVERN."

The US support of Israel shows how deranged our government is about human rights.

I wrote to President Obama about lifting the blockade against Cuba, and he wrote back and said "not until their government provides more freedoms."

What a joke.


Since the Pals have been implacable in their unwillingness to recognize the right of Israel to exist, I don't know how anyone can fault Israel for not making concessions to the Pals. Further, the Pals will not enter into any reasonable agreement with Israel. No other country, were it in Israel's postion, would act differently.

Moreover, recoognizing the WB and Gaza as a separate country would be tantamount to the creation of a terrorist state.
Advocate
 
  1  
Thu 25 Jul, 2013 12:01 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
I wrote to President Obama about lifting the blockade against Cuba, and he wrote back and said "not until their government provides more freedoms."

What a joke.


He wasn't joking, CI.

He meant more freedom for the US government to turn the Cuban people back into slaves and prostitutes.

He meant more freedom for the US government to dismantle their excellent health care programs.

He meant more freedom for the US government to help American businesses once again, rape and pillage the Cuban economy.

He meant more freedom for the US government to install their own brutal dictator to ensure more freedom for the Cuban people.

Why didn't you tell him to get up to speed on the history of the US vis a vis other nations?

Why didn't you point out to him that in no case where the US has invaded, always illegally, other sovereign nations, did the people end up better off?

Why didn't you point up to him that he was being as hypocritical as all the previous terrorist/war criminal prezes that had come before him?


That is not the way Obama thinks or acts.

I think he will lift sanctions on Cuba before he leaves office.
JTT
 
  3  
Thu 25 Jul, 2013 12:03 pm
@Advocate,
Quote:
Moreover, recoognizing the WB and Gaza as a separate country would be tantamount to the creation of a terrorist state.


That would be a perfect counterbalance to the Israeli terrorist state, A.
JTT
 
  1  
Thu 25 Jul, 2013 12:07 pm
@Advocate,
Quote:
That is not the way Obama thinks or acts.

I think he will lift sanctions on Cuba before he leaves office.


Dollars to donuts he won't. But you give much too much credit to a war criminal, a terrorist, A, a guy who continued the war crimes of Bush and has perpetrated many of his own.
0 Replies
 
Moment-in-Time
 
  1  
Thu 25 Jul, 2013 03:00 pm
@Advocate,
Quote:

Since the Pals have been implacable in their unwillingness to recognize the right of Israel to exist


Here you go again, Advocate, with the propaganda. I posted a link showing how Hamas had said it supported Israel's right to exist. "However, to talk of Hamas/Palestinians "recognizing Israel" is simply to use sloppy, confusing, and deceptive shorthand for the real demand being made of the Palestinians. To demand that Palestinians recognize "Israel's right to exist" is to demand that a people who have been treated as subhumans unworthy of basic human rights publicly proclaim that they are subhumans. It would imply Palestinians' acceptance that they deserve what has been done and continues to be done to them. The original conception of the phrase "Israel's right to exist" and of its use is an excuse for not talking with any Palestinian leaders who still stand up for the rights of their people as Hamas does in Gaza and the Palestinian Authority does in Ramallah"

Really, Advocate, if you're going to be a spokesperson for the Zionist entity at least try to be more ethical in what you post. There are some of us who follow closely events in the Middle East, especially regarding the Palestinians Israeli conflict, and are not easily deceived by the exhortation of extremists whose observations seem distorted.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 25 Jul, 2013 03:04 pm
@Advocate,
See MiT's post; I agree 100% with the opinions posted by MiT.
 

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