12
   

EU's Hostile Fixation on Israeli Settlements

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Wed 31 Jul, 2013 02:27 am
@izzythepush,
So, you're trying to get a rise out of me? You're pathetic.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Wed 31 Jul, 2013 03:18 am
@Setanta,
Not as pathetic as you are Malvolio, you always start these things. Foofie started this by trying to suggest that the UK as part of Europe as a whole was engaged in anti-Semitism. I just put him right, it was all done and dusted, you were the one who waded in accusing me of bragging.

H2OMan, Oralboy and now Foofie, is there no end to the amount of arses you'll lick to pursue your Anglophobia? You really have no principles at all, you bigoted little ****.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 31 Jul, 2013 03:33 am
@Foofie,
Quote:
You might be making a very valid argument for intransigence by Israel, since you might be proving that the world at large really has no room for Jews...


Why do you suppose this is?

What is it all about?
Setanta
 
  0  
Wed 31 Jul, 2013 04:29 am
@izzythepush,
You didn't put anything "right." You exercised your typical selection bias. You five a single incident that made England look good--because your an obsessive chauvinist--and a single incident that made the U.S. look bad--because you're an obsessive bigot--and you tried to suggest that those two incidents characterized the two nations.

You certainly were bragging and attempting to smear the United States and Americans at the same time. This is typical of your irrational bigotry against the United States and Americans. Now you try to drag Ireland in in the hope of getting a rise out of me in particular.

England did jack-**** for the Jews of Europe, even after their intelligence services knew about the "final solution." Stop trying to make the English out to be simon-pure, noble knights in shining armor.

NO ONE gave a **** about the Jews of Europe in that war--NO ONE.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Wed 31 Jul, 2013 04:48 am
@Setanta,
Sure Bubbo, whatever you say.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Wed 31 Jul, 2013 04:52 am
You bet--i say you're an irrational chauvinist and an irrational bigot. It's good to see that you finally admit it.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Wed 31 Jul, 2013 05:00 am
@Setanta,
I've not admitted anything Malvolio, it's clear what you are. I try to avoid talking to you, but you're always the one who sniffs round after me, like a whiney little dog.
Setanta
 
  0  
Wed 31 Jul, 2013 05:05 am
@izzythepush,
It's hilariously pathetic how you attempt to use your school playground insults. The fact remains that you attempted to portray England as a noble savior of Jews, and the United States as a callous murderer of Jews by omission. That's not true, and when you got called on it, you went off in your typical scatterbrained way to insult Ireland, all in the hope of provoking me. That's because you can't follow a coherent train of thought, and you can't present and defend a solid argument. You've got nothing going for you in debate except your insults and your wild, irrelevant accusations.

I don't "sniff around you," i hardly pay any attention to you. When, however, you post chauvinistic and bigoted bullsh*t which simply isn't true, i'm going to call bullsh*t. If you don't like that, don't post lies.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Wed 31 Jul, 2013 05:12 am
@Setanta,
I just responded to Foofie's accusations. There's plenty of arses you could be sniffing right now. Why don't you toddle off.

Don't worry, I'll let you have the last word. I know that's so important to you, and I've got better things to do than waste any more time talking to you.
Setanta
 
  0  
Wed 31 Jul, 2013 05:24 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Don't worry, I'll let you have the last word. I know that's so important to you, and I've got better things to do than waste any more time talking to you.


Ah-hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha . . .

Ironic humor always works best when it comes from a clueless clown.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 31 Jul, 2013 05:26 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

NO ONE gave a **** about the Jews of Europe in that war--NO ONE.
... with few exceptions.

It was a good business for others, though: Bank of England sold stolen gold for Nazis
Setanta
 
  1  
Wed 31 Jul, 2013 06:00 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter, you can't mean the virtuous English did that, can you ? ! ? ! ?

Yes, it is unfair of me to make such a statement--i ought to have said that no one among the Allies gave a sh*t about the Jews.

Other nations did better:

Quote:
Norway and Denmark had a Jewish population of 10,000 between them. Acting on a Swedish offer of refuge, Denmark saved almost all its Jewish citizens, while Norway managed to save about half After the liberation of the concentration camps, Sweden accepted thousands of survivors for medical treatment.


Source at Wikipedia

Italians, even though Italy was an ally of Germany, saved many Jews, as explained in this New York Times article.

Several Hungarian prime ministers cooperated with the German policies toward Jews, but Admiral Hrothy was opposed to those policies, and resisted them as much as possible.

Quote:
An estimated 119,000 Jewish people were liberated in Budapest (25,000 in the small, "international" ghetto, 69,000 in the big ghetto and 25,000 hiding with false papers) and 20,000 forced laborers in the countryside. Almost all of the surviving deportees returned between May and December 1945, at least to check out the fate of their families. Their number was 116,000.

It is estimated that from an original population of 861,000 people considered Jewish inside the borders of 1941–44, about 255,000 survived. This gives a 29.6% survival rate overall. This number was even worse in Slovakia. On the other hand, the Jewish population fared much better on the Romanian side in Southern Transylvania, since Romania did not deport Jews to Auschwitz. According to another calculation, Hungary's pre-war Jewish population was 800,000, of which 180,000 survived.


Source at Wikipedia

Although more of the Jews of Romania (another German ally) survived, proportionally, than in other German-allied countries, the treatment of Romanian Jews was brutal. The only thing which saved those who survived was the refusal of the Romanians to allow the deportation of any of their citizens.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Wed 31 Jul, 2013 07:46 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Foofie started this by trying to suggest that the UK as part of Europe as a whole was engaged in anti-Semitism. I just put him right, it was all done and dusted...


What did I say? Please copy and paste my quote that gave you this idea? I wasn't the poster that referred to Britain not letting Jews emigrate to the Palestine Mandate during the rise of Nazi Germany.

But, anti-Semitism is not necessarily the cause of Jews dying in the Holocaust by inaction of the Allies. There is just the alienation from Jews (non-English speaking Jews to be exact) to make them EXPENDABLE, so if Britain didn't want to jeopardize their oil supplies before WWII, letting Jews die at the hands of the Nazis was no great loss, in my opinion. See? Not anti-Semitism PER SE, just inaction, based I believe, on Jews being expendable. You seem to not give Brits credit for being as ethnocentric (aka, clannish) as many another nationality?
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Wed 31 Jul, 2013 07:52 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:
You might be making a very valid argument for intransigence by Israel, since you might be proving that the world at large really has no room for Jews...


Why do you suppose this is?

What is it all about?


In my opinion, Jews were quite valuable to give pagans a more modern concept of spirituality (aka, monotheism); however, the dilemma after that was that these previously "laughable" people (for not believing in the pagan gods) would cause a humiliation to be felt, if any gratitude was given. In effect, again in my opinion, Jews were the only monotheistic witnesses to remember when pagans were just pagans. Sort of embarrassing. So the seeds of anti-Semitism were sown in the egos of the Gentile masses. Just my opinion.
Foofie
 
  1  
Wed 31 Jul, 2013 08:17 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

NO ONE gave a **** about the Jews of Europe in that war--NO ONE.


We finally agree on something. Plus, in my opinion, one needs to be quite an iconoclast to be willing to say that then or today.

For all intensive purposes you are correct, in my opinion; however, the only verifiable "true" help to the Jews were the Danish Jews (12,000 in number) that were given assistance to get out of Denmark, just before the Nazi occupation. One author did say that there was a high degree of intermarriage between Christian Danes and Jewish (Danes). Perhaps, that had something to do with the Danish largesse? And, interestingly, Franco did give Jews passports to get to a neutral country.

And, Trujillo in the Dominican Republic did take in some Jews. Some countries in South America also, and Singapore was an open city.

But, I believe there was an effort by French nuns to hide Jewish children that had moved from Poland to France with any remaining relatives. I know of a child that went to school during the day, in a French parochial school (in Paris no less), all under the eyes of Nazi troops on patrol just outside. So, one can say that these nuns did not compromise their morality, even with the occupation. Quite fearless those French nuns. I know this from knowing the child that survived this way. She was told to stand up during the singing of morning prayers, so the passing Nazi soldiers outside the school would not have their suspicions raised. And, the Jewish child was told by the nuns (in her language no less), "You don't have to sing along; we know it is not your religion; we just want you not to raise the suspicions of the soldiers passing by, so please stand up when we stand up to sing." Talk of not taking advantage of a small child; it would have been a perfect time to attempt to bring a child into the flock, yet their ethics would not allow it, apparently. We do not hear of any of this, I believe, since the parents of the other children might have been very upset to think their children were at risk for retribution for a Jew being protected.

So, the concern for Jews was minimal. That is known by the few, or no relatives remaining for those that were living in the U.S., and tried to make contact after the war.

The opinion that people did this or that, or didn't do this or that, is over-shadowed, in my opinion, by an idea being promulgated by some folks of German ancestry that "if it wasn't for the Jews, people would love Germany today." Tell that to a Pole.

Foofie
 
  1  
Wed 31 Jul, 2013 08:31 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

I just responded to Foofie's accusations.


What were my accusations?

If you are talking about not allowing Jews to emigrate to the Palestine Mandate that is just history.

By the way, as I've read, England kicked Jews out of England twice (and let them back in twice) in the prior centuries. Talk of a fickle nature. But, I don't know what it is that makes many Jews Anglophiles? Perhaps, the British character is so wrapped up in its image that it lessens any overt anti-Semitism? I mean I've always wondered if Brits really speak like Americans, but put on the British accent to impress each other?
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Wed 31 Jul, 2013 08:33 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Setanta wrote:

NO ONE gave a **** about the Jews of Europe in that war--NO ONE.
... with few exceptions.

It was a good business for others, though: Bank of England sold stolen gold for Nazis


I was under the impression that gold teeth from the ovens were melted down to form enough gold to allow Nazis after the war to gain entry into some countries.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 31 Jul, 2013 08:41 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
For all intensive purposes you are correct, in my opinion; however, the only verifiable "true" help to the Jews were the Danish Jews (12,000 in number) that were given assistance to get out of Denmark, just before the Nazi occupation.
Georg Ferdinand Duckwitz was a German attache who warned the Danish Jews about their intended deportation in 1943. It is estimated that he prevented the deportation of 95% of Denmark's Jews in the resulting rescue of the Danish Jews. (He is also on the Yad Vashem list.)

Quite few websites deal with the "myth of the Danes" (yellow star and marriages).
Foofie wrote:
The opinion that people did this or that, or didn't do this or that, is over-shadowed, in my opinion, by an idea being promulgated by some folks of German ancestry that "if it wasn't for the Jews, people would love Germany today." Tell that to a Pole.

I don't think that "loving Germany"/"loving Germans" was the topic of this thread of threat.
The Poles certainly have been a nation which was got several beatings during their history - today's Pole like to live here; they hate the Russians (and vice versa).
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 31 Jul, 2013 08:45 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

I was under the impression that gold teeth from the ovens were melted down to form enough gold to allow Nazis after the war to gain entry into some countries.
I'm not good enough in historical economic affairs to reply here.
But what I do know is that the link I gave and to which you responded has nothing to do with 'gold teeth' but with the British Bank.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Wed 31 Jul, 2013 08:45 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:
You might be making a very valid argument for intransigence by Israel, since you might be proving that the world at large really has no room for Jews...


Why do you suppose this is?

What is it all about?


In my opinion, Jews were quite valuable to give pagans a more modern concept of spirituality (aka, monotheism); however, the dilemma after that was that these previously "laughable" people (for not believing in the pagan gods) would cause a humiliation to be felt, if any gratitude was given. In effect, again in my opinion, Jews were the only monotheistic witnesses to remember when pagans were just pagans. Sort of embarrassing. So the seeds of anti-Semitism were sown in the egos of the Gentile masses. Just my opinion.


Let's discuss this a bit, Foofie.

First of all, I doubt you thought my question went back to times when "pagan" religions were in competition with the Hebrew religion (which I do not see as monotheistic at all.)

You were talking about today...and my question went to today.

You are saying, in effect, that Jews are not welcome anywhere.

I am asking you why YOU suppose this is so.

What, in your opinion, is it all about?

And that is all I am asking you for...your opinion. I have mine...and I imagine others have theirs. What is yours?
 

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