27
   

When I am wrong...I am wrong!

 
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Jul, 2013 03:39 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
Wars are a symptom of human sickness.


That's a political statement, albeit, not a very direct one, Neo.

That means that every US prez since WWII is/was sick. Not at all a difficult thing to imagine.

What kind of a sick person would allow the murder, rape and torture of poor people just to let US businesses steal those people's daily bread?

What kind of a sick person would perpetuate the big lie that the US is/was the savior of the oppressed?
neologist
 
  2  
Reply Sun 21 Jul, 2013 03:47 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
Wars are a symptom of human sickness.


That's a political statement, albeit, not a very direct one, Neo.

That means that every US prez since WWII is/was sick. Not at all a difficult thing to imagine.

What kind of a sick person would allow the murder, rape and torture of poor people just to let US businesses steal those people's daily bread?

What kind of a sick person would perpetuate the big lie that the US is/was the savior of the oppressed?
No, it means that every human king and cleric since the beginning of history is/was sick, as have been their subjects. That includes those you seem to champion as 'innocents'.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Jul, 2013 04:52 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
No, it means that every human king and cleric since the beginning of history is/was sick, as have been their subjects.


That's a major cop out, Neo. That was not the case at Nuremberg or Tokyo, or more recently with Bosnia and Herzegovina.

Quote:
That includes those you seem to champion as 'innocents'.


The Jews weren't innocents? The Holocaust was just a fine example of a German group with discriminating tastes?

neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Jul, 2013 05:06 pm
@JTT,
Not guilty in a specific instance is not the same as not sick.
I have not murdered, yet I am a sinner
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 15 May, 2014 01:53 am
@Arjunakki,
Arjunakki wrote:
hawkeye10 wrote:
we were tired of the war, we were going to win it but those damned Japs were going to stretch it out a couple of more years. so we made a choice.

Your post is highly racial and offensive.

His post was nothing of the sort.


Arjunakki wrote:
To the heart of the matter as to why the Americans dropped the A-bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaka is the realism they wanted to a) test the bomb on live subjects, b) to send a warning to the world do not mess with the US.

Stop lying. You know very well that the reason that we dropped the bombs was because we were in the midst of the most brutal war in human history.


Arjunakki wrote:
To me the reasoning for dropping "Fat Man and Little Boy Bombs" on innocent people is today perplexing. I consider the act of deliberating targeting cities filled with innocent people man's inhumanity to man.

First of all, you are lying about the nature of the targets. Hiroshima was a huge military center filled with tens of thousands of Japanese soldiers. Nagasaki was an industrial center containing huge weapon factories.

And as for the reasoning, you know very well that the reason we dropped the bombs was because we were in the middle of a horrifically brutal war.


Arjunakki wrote:
That can never be made right until future generations of Americans make up for it in some way.

That which is already right, does not need to be "made" right.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 15 May, 2014 01:55 am
@Moment-in-Time,
Quote:
Were the Atomic Bombings Necessary?

A rather silly question. We were in the middle of the most horrendous war in human history.


Quote:
Japan surrendered with the understanding that the emperor system would be retained.

No they didn't. We outright rejected Japan's request that Hirohito retain unlimited dictatorial power as their living deity.


Quote:
The US agreed to do what Truman had been advised to do before the bombings: it signaled to the Japanese that they would be allowed to retain the emperor.

What Mr. Grew had suggested was that we promise that Hirohito's line would continue as a constitutional monarchy.

It is debatable how well Japan would have received this offer had it been made, as it strongly implied Hirohito's execution, with his son becoming the figurehead leader.

Regardless, Japan did not prove willing to surrender under any terms whatsoever until after both A-bombs had been dropped, so "our not taking Mr. Grew's advice" did not delay the war by very much, if at all.


Quote:
The US dropped atomic bombs on a nation that had been largely defeated and some of whose leaders were seeking terms of surrender.

Japan made no attempt to surrender until after both A-bombs had been dropped.

And Japan already had the surrender terms. That's what the Potsdam Proclamation was.


Quote:
Many World War II era servicemen who were in the Pacific or anticipated being shipped there believed that the bombs saved them from fighting hard battles on the shores of Japan, as had been fought on the islands of Iwo Jima and Okinawa. What they did not take into account was that the Japanese were trying to surrender, that the US had broken the Japanese codes and knew they were trying to surrender, and that, had the US accepted their offer, the war could have ended without the use of the atomic bombs.

Japan made no attempt to surrender until after both A-bombs had been dropped.


Quote:
"The US dropped atomic bombs on a nation that had been largely defeated ...the bombs were unnecessary."

Japan was free to surrender before we dropped the A-bombs if they wanted.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 15 May, 2014 01:56 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
the japs had been told that their surrender had to be unconditional, which they were not willing to do, as proven by the cables. I believe that part of the arguement was that they would not unconditionally surrender until all of the island looked like Dresden, which would have been a slog with lots of them killed, that nuking them might actually save jap lives.

Actually, we had backed off on unconditional surrender. The Potsdam Proclamation was a list of generous surrender terms.

Japan was not willing to surrender even conditionally until after the second A-bomb had been dropped.
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Thu 15 May, 2014 03:33 am
@oralloy,
Things were looking pretty bleak for the Japs
as of the time (and place) of The Potsdam Proclamation.
Thay must have felt somewhat demoralized, isolated, scared.
Italy n Germany had already been conquered.
The Potsdam Proclamation was issued standing on the dead body of the 3rd Reich.

I 'll bet that thay regretted their decision to bom Pearl Harbor, by then.
0 Replies
 
 

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