PUNCTUATION HELP WITH COMMA AND QUOTATION MARKS

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This is verbatim on a legal transcript so I can't change any words around. How should I punctuate this:
That's the kind of things I'm asking about when I say a formal method for evaluating school safety agents. So when I say formal method of evaluating school safety agents, do you understand what I mean?

Should I punctuate it like this: That's the kind of things I'm asking about when I say, "a formal method for evaluating school safety agents." So when I say, "formal method of evaluating school safety agents," do you understand what I mean?

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This is how I would punctuate the sentences:

That's the kind of things I'm asking about when I say: "a formal method for evaluating school safety agents". So when I say: "formal method of evaluating school safety agents", do you understand what I mean?

Note I use the British English approach to punctuation and quote marks.

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@LeahMM,

This is how most Americans would punctuate it:

That's the kind of things I'm asking about when I say "a formal method for evaluating school safety agents." So when I say "formal method of evaluating school safety agents," do you understand what I mean?

The commas after "when i say" are not necessary. One might use a colon as Contrex has done, but i don't think it would be thought to be a requirement in American usage. The main difference is that the last comma (and all other punctuation at the end of any quoted portion of a sentence) would be placed inside the final quotation mark. This may no longer be true in American usage, but was for all of my working life in business practice, which is or was, more formal.

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

The main difference is that the last comma (and all other punctuation at the end of any quoted portion of a sentence) would be placed inside the final quotation mark. This may no longer be true in American usage, but was for all of my working life in business practice, which is or was, more formal.

"Conventional" versus "logical" placement of punctuation in relation to quotation marks - from my understanding, the US practice is to place question and exclamation marks either inside or outside the quotes, whichever is most logical, whereas commas and "periods" (full stops) always go inside regardless. The British English practice is to extend the principle of "most logical" to cover commas and full stops.

Apparently (although I cannot vouch for this) the practice of putting little marks like commas and periods inside quotes arose when type was handset. A period or comma outside of quotation marks at the end of a sentence tended to get knocked out of position, so the printers tucked the little devils inside the quotation marks to keep them safe and out of trouble. But apparently only American printers were more attached to convenience than logic, since British printers continued to risk the misalignment of their periods and commas.

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Logic huh? It cracks me up that you equate your habitual practices with adjectives such as "correct" or a noun such as "logic." It is alleged that logic dictates that we not use double or multiple negatives--so do you find French (and several other European languages) to be illogical? Your quaint, parochial chauvinism is endearing.

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Logic huh? It cracks me up that you equate your habitual practices with adjectives such as "correct" or a noun such as "logic." It is alleged that logic dictates that we not use double or multiple negatives--so do you find French (and several other European languages) to be illogical? Your quaint, parochial chauvinism is endearing.

Setanta, I know that it difficult, on the Web, to convey subtleties of intent, e.g. playfulness, whimsy, and some things just plain get lost. One example is the recent post I made in another thread where I yanked your chain (or "rattled the bars of your cage" as we say) by asserting that the "proper" way to write 10th July 2013 in figures was "10/7/2013". Sure enough, you promptly assumed I was serious, and (evidently) that I was making an attack on America, a kind of 9/11 of linguistics, (or do I mean 11/9?) and you made a twattish response not dissimilar to the above.

Here you go again. Naming the US quotes/punctuation practice as "conventional" and the British practice as "logical" is not my invention, these are designations used in descriptions of typestting practice, style guides, scholarly language writing etc on both sides of the Atlantic for over 100 years. In particular, it should be noted that the use of "logical" does not imply any value judgement or indicate that the user considers the British practice more logical or sensible or correct than the US one. I used quotation marks around the words for precisely this reason.

You often come over as silly and obsessed as your apparent enemy, JTT, especially when you post as you did above. I sometimes wonder if you are both the same person.

1 Reply

@contrex,

Well, certainly, playfulness doesn't get through to you if you assumed that i thought you were making an attack on America. However, it is difficult to see any playfulness when you use terms such as "twatish." Just jerking my chain?

As far as your attitude toward Americans, when you told Foofie that all Americans are Chavs and always will be, i think that pretty well sums up your attitude.

All of this is the subject of convention, one is not more logical than the other, and one is not more correct than the other. Get over yourself.

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

All of this is the subject of convention, one is not more logical than the other, and one is not more correct than the other.

This is what I wrote. You really are a "twat" as we say over here.

1 Reply

@contrex,

Yeah, sure . . .

Quote:

But apparently only American printers were more attached to convenience than logic . . .

You are what we call over here a whiny little bitch . . . and a liar.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Yeah, sure . . .

Quote:
But apparently only American printers were more attached to convenience than logic . . .

You are what we call over here a whiny little bitch . . . and a liar.

I lifted that quote entire from an American grammar blog... keep digging...

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@contrex,

Oh a blog . . . now there's an unimpeachable source of rectitude. It doesn't matter where you got, it was not saying what i was saying, so either your getting confused (probably due to senile dementia) or you were willfully lying.

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Even a discussion about punctuation will likely degenerate into invective when Set is involved...

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@Olivier5,

Oh, and of course you would never sully your arguments with sneers and personal invective . . .

As they say in New York, don't piss down my leg and tell me it's raining.

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@Setanta,

I give you 10% of the abuse you give me. I am a very benevolent poster.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

As they say in New York, don't piss down my leg and tell me it's raining.

I'll piss on your goddam face and tell you my fist is coming next.

1 Reply

@contrex,

Oooo . . . tough guy . . . one meets quite a few of them online . . .

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@Olivier5,

Ah-hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha . . . like your performance in the thread bout the source of existence . . . hahahahahahahahahahahaha . . .

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Yes, indeed, like that performance. Did I hurt your feelings on that thread? More factually, did I insult you more than you insulted me? I don't think so. Your skin is very thin and the slightest joke is taken as a "sneer".

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@LeahMM,

Quote:

Should I punctuate it like this: That's the kind of things I'm asking about when I say, "a formal method for evaluating school safety agents." So when I say, "formal method of evaluating school safety agents," do you understand what I mean?

Yes, but only if you can't be bothered punctuating it with spleen, calumny and obloquy which 9 out of 10 dentists have shown improves your smile and posture.

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@contrex,

Quote:

I lifted that quote entire from an American grammar blog

Without attribution? Did you copy it word for word or did you change the wording to cover your dishonesty?

Quote:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lift

2 lift verb
a : steal <had her purse lifted>
b : plagiarize

Would this then be the standard that is to be found within your education system, Contrex?

See also,

http://able2know.org/topic/217676-2#post-5383924

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