Should I tell my adult children how things were

Thanks Punkey. My wife has pretty much told me to do the same thing. She said not to engage that behavior and definitely put a stop to what is not acceptable. For a lot of years when I tried that, they would use that against me and say my wife is brainwashing me because I tried to put a stop to their antics. But my wife also has kids that were raised under our roof and they are respectful of her, myself and their bio dad so I feel her advice is solid because of how her kids turned out. My wife is also a product of a blended family and her and her step-siblings still get along to this day and all are respectful of their parents. I feel caught in the middle for sure but the older I get the more I see my daughters are being irrational in their behavior and I wish it would just stop. I have always offered my time and provided financial assistance to them when they needed help. I always told them they could live with me if they wanted to, but they always reject me unless it's something they need or want. Any other time they are pretty ugly with me or don't associate with me at all. They are 27, 26 and 24. My daughters have 3 step sisters with me and my wife. They also have 3 step sisters with their mom and stepdad. It's only my step-daughters they have problems with but of course, their mom isn't going to turn them against her husband's kids. I know it's part of the PAS to also alienate my family and anyone I'm close to.

Their ages reveal a lot, but still - do not accept the verbal abuse from them. The last thing they need is to view you as a controllable wimp.

Kids get real smart around 30 - they realize that their parents were so stupid.

Don't expect them to understand things fully right now. Good luck and enjoy all nice people around you and don't try to change other people's feelings.

I think you are missing my original point. I'm not estranged from any of my children and there is no "lost relationship". We have one, sometimes good, lots of times bad. PAS is not something that goes away when the kids become adults. Their views of me and attitudes they formed as children carry on into their adult lives and how they communicate with me. You certainly can't believe that everything you live and learn as a child doesn't follow you and make you who you are as an adult. They no longer live with their mother, all on their own now, so I stand a better chance of getting through to them. But I saw a drastic change in them when I went to visit a few months ago. I saw 2 of them in person and talked with the other on the phone when I got to town. All were doing great, being respectful, making plans to get together, etc. Two of them went out with their mom the very next day and when I spoke with them again that afternoon to make plans, the 2 that had seen their mom were now copping attitudes and didn't want to see me. I mean WTH is that? The night before when I spoke with them, all was great! My ex is STILL messing with my relationship even though they are adults. Just when I think that poison is out of their systems, it's like my ex can flip a switch and turn them against me in the blink of an eye. My original question was should I explain to my kids all I've been through in hopes of gaining some understanding and empathy from them so they will stop bashing me and thinking I'm a terrible person and believing their mom is the best thing since sliced bread! I wasn't looking for an excuse to "OUT" my ex-wife's behavior, but rather wake them up to the fact that I'm not a deadbeat dad who chose to live with and love other children while kicking them to the curb. I feel like they should know this from my actions and how long I've fought for them, but where my ex had access to them everyday for 17 years, she's always been able to get them to take her side or believe the nonsense she wants them to believe. Trust me when I say I've never put their mother down in front of them, nor do I want to open that subject with them now, but it's been a long time of trying like hell using every other way possible to get them to stop being so hateful and accusing me of things I never did. They cannot tell me anything in particular that I did that made them mad, ever! When asked, they can't think of anything I've done other than being there for them and spending time with them when I could. So even they can't explain their anger towards me, but they just know they are mad. Their feelings are so twisted, they love me and want to spend time with me, but for some reason they can't figure out why they are just always mad at me and grasp at anything that can be turned into a personal violation towards them and call me out on it. They leave me flabbergasted a lot of times. How would you feel if you had a 13 y/o child that phoned you, out of the blue, and cussed you out (YES CUSSED) for not getting her permission to go on your own honeymoon and you didn't take them with you! And then proceed to accuse you of choosing your spouse over them because she got to go on the honeymoon! Extremely inflated entitlement attitudes that I'm not armed to cope with! That's the ex-wife telling them this crap, that's PAS working on them...brainwashing the children to make them believe I don't love them because I didn't include them in my honeymoon! The kids don't realize it has been done to them and they start to believe this crap because "mom loves them and I don't". No normal kid would have such expections of a parent. My ex has severely distorted their views and expectations that I've never been able to have the normal, loving, enjoyable relationship with my daughters that I had with them prior to the marriage ending. It's all about them or nothing, and now they are grown with the same attitudes. Just when I think all is going to be okay with them, it happens all over again.

I can't imagine they would take it well if you were to tell them anything negative about their mother.

From previous thread/s, it seems you've done more than you should already in terms of putting up with their behaviour.

Step back from them. Enjoy your friends, your wife, your stepkids. If your daughters choose to reach out to you, it's up to them to treat you with respect. If they're not respectful, end the conversation/interaction.

They're grown-ups and should be expected to behave as such.

I can understand that you're disappointed that they didn't in effect grow out of their attitudes and behaviours, but you may need to simply accept that.

Thanks for the advice. That's pretty much where I've decided my relationship is going to have to be. Disappointed by all means, but I know it's not fair to my wife and my other kids to have to deal with their drama all the time for really no reason at all. Though it makes me feel like I'm giving up on my "helpless" daughters. I know they are not helpless though, I know they are capable of showing respect so I need them to act like that with me. By saying "helpless" I mean they had no controller over the covert brainwashing that was done by my ex-wife. This thought of telling them of my past with their mother and asking them to read about PAS was a "hail Mary" last ditch effort to get through to them once and for all. Kind of like, I really have nothing more to lose at this point and nothing so far has worked so give it a shot, "go big or go home" kind of move before I give up completely and just let them come to me from now on.

Hopefully they will come to the point someday that they will be able to approach you and ask how things were for you. Maybe they will recognize that they need counselling and the counsellors will help them reach out to you.

In the meantime, have a terrific life with the people who love you.

Hi again Robert,

Reading your posts since my last post, I think you have some difficulty dealing with conflict and manipulation - make no mistake, your daughters are emotionally manipulating you...and that doesn't mean they are bad people - for it seems this is born out of their fears.

The thing is - manipulations of this sort are usually a test, even an ongoing one. If you react negatively to their manipulation, you allow them to justify their fears, and reinforce the need to be the way they are.

I would suggest you obtain yourself a few books on conflict management, and manipulation. A list of ones I liked that may relate :

- In Sheeps Clothing (it deals with manipulation)

- Crucial Conversations (for a business environment, it deals with how to raise difficult issues, and gain cooperation)

- I can't find on my bookshelves one on conflict management that I think is perfect for you, so perhaps look up the subject on Amazon : conflict management, dealing with difficult people, verbal self-defense, non-adversarial communication etc.

- Any book on Listening...for example when you daughter says 'you're putting your step-daughter before me' - listening would respond in any of the following ways : why do you feel that way? / you sound upset / you feel that me doing things with my step daughters is putting them first (as a partial statement, partial question)...and after they give you a reply - you don't then jump to self defense - you use the same technique and listen further, and repeat the process until they feel understood...for there's an old saying 'they don't care how much you know until they know how much you care' = in your case, that they want to be understood (which shows care) first and foremost. When they feel understood, most people are then prepared to listen to a person who gave them so much understanding.

-------------------------

On listening - if you don't hear, and understand their fears...will they ever truly feel you have empathy? It's natural for you to to react defensively, but does that achieve understanding of their fears? Does it achieve them feeling that you hear them?

--------------------------------------

And further to that - listening doesn't mean you have to cop abuse. The essential thing you are looking for, even if they criticise you, is that they do with respect (You can criticise someone respectfully. And even while hurting, people can show respect).

If they are on the phone abusing you, there are many phrases you can use :

- please speak to me respectfully
- you can say what you like, but do so in a respectful manner
- you can speak your mind, and even criticise me, just so long you do in a respectful manner (and in return I will always speak to you respectfully).
- when you a prepared to speak to me in a respectful manner then we will talk through what you want to say to me
- I want to listen to what you have to say, but I will only do so when you choose to speak to me with respect (even in criticism)
- it's not what you are saying, but the way you are saying it (that is disrespectful)
- call me back when you can speak respectfully, and then we will work through this. For now, as you aren't speaking respectfully, I'm hanging up

etc.

Basically the message must always be the same. And it must be firm. Deviation from it will mean (in their mind) that you don't really mean it, or that you don't have conviction, or that the 'real you' showed up, or some such. Children get security from consistency and boundaries (to behaviours), even as they grow into adults.


If you meld the two, you may choose a boundary like this : they ring up and abuse you (even in a disrespectful tone), you employ listenning skills...if they keep being disrespectful (for no 'skill' is perfect) for 2 minutes...you then change to talking about the tone of voice / way they are speaking...and you keep this pattern up in all your conversations.

That is to say - there are many ways to deal with this thing - just make it consistent.

Hope it helps some.