6
   

Does "to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt" mean...?

 
 
Reply Wed 10 Jul, 2013 04:08 am
Does "to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt " mean "in order to avoid the suspicion (that Nero had ordered burning of Jerosalem), Nero
imputed the crime to Christians and deemed/judged Christianity as "a most mischievous superstition"?


Context:

Such indeed were the precautions of human wisdom. The next thing was to seek means of propitiating the gods, and recourse was had to the Sibylline books, by the direction of which prayers were offered to Vulcanus, Ceres, and Proserpina. Juno, too, was entreated by the matrons, first, in the Capitol, then on the nearest part of the coast, whence water was procured to sprinkle the fane and image of the goddess. And there were sacred banquets and nightly vigils celebrated by married women. But all human efforts, all the lavish gifts of the emperor, and the propitiations of the gods, did not banish the sinister belief that the conflagration was the result of an order. Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired. Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle, and was exhibiting a show in the circus, while he mingled with the people in the dress of a charioteer or stood aloft on a car. Hence, even for criminals who deserved extreme and exemplary punishment, there arose a feeling of compassion; for it was not, as it seemed, for the public good, but to glut one man's cruelty, that they were being destroyed.

More:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Annals_(Tacitus)/Book_15#44
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Type: Question • Score: 6 • Views: 763 • Replies: 17
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View best answer, chosen by oristarA
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jul, 2013 04:23 am
The passage, which is almost certainly a forgery (an interpolation, but i don't want to make this any more difficult than it already is) is not talking about Jerusalem. The Roman's didn't give a rat's ass if the entire population of Jerusalem lived or died, and would have paid no attention to a report that it has burned to the ground. The event referred to was the "great fire" at Rome in 64 CE. The Romans cared what happened to Rome, they didn't care what happened to Jerusalem. Some people at that time believed that Nero had set the fire, or had had it set.
0 Replies
 
PUNKEY
  Selected Answer
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Jul, 2013 07:44 am
Nero fastened the guilt on the Christians = he put the blame on the Christians.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jul, 2013 08:09 am
Actually, he didn't. To be more precise, that's what that completely unreliable passage is claiming.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jul, 2013 09:10 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Actually, he didn't. To be more precise, that's what that completely unreliable passage is claim
ing.


Yes, sir, you're talking about historical facts.

But could you pay a little more attention to the grammatical question:

Does "to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt " mean "in order to avoid the suspicion (that Nero had ordered burning of Jerosalem), Nero
imputed the crime to Christians and deemed/judged Christianity as "a most mischievous superstition"?


Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jul, 2013 09:36 am
@oristarA,
I answered that question.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jul, 2013 09:59 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

I answered that question.


You just said that passage was a forgery. Well, did the author of the forgery intend to say that christianity was a mischievous superstition at that time?
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jul, 2013 10:05 am
@oristarA,
I didn't "just say that the passage was a forgery.

oristarA wrote:
Does "to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt " mean "in order to avoid the suspicion (that Nero had ordered burning of Jerosalem), Nero imputed the crime to Christians and deemed/judged Christianity as "a most mischievous superstition"?


Setanta wrote:
Some people at that time believed that Nero had set the fire, or had had it set.


While it is true that i didn't comment on Nero imputing "the crime" to christians, that was simply because it was not true. I answered your question.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jul, 2013 10:50 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:
Does "to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt " mean "in order to avoid the suspicion (that Nero had ordered burning of Jerosalem), Nero imputed the crime to Christians and deemed/judged Christianity as "a most mischievous superstition"?


Replace Jerusalem with Rome, and the answer is yes.

oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jul, 2013 11:12 am
@InfraBlue,
Well, Setanta has answered half the question. The remaining part is:
and (Nero) deemed/judged Christianity as "a most mischievous superstition"?

Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jul, 2013 11:20 am
@oristarA,
No, i did answer that. Nero did no such thing.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jul, 2013 12:43 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

No, i did answer that. Nero did no such thing.


You have been trying to beat around the bush. Be straight, was the author who committed the interpolation trying to make readers believe that Christianity is a superstition?
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jul, 2013 02:46 pm
@oristarA,
I wan't beating around any bushes--you didn't ask this question before. You make yourself look simple-minded, something i don't believe. The author of the interpolation appears to wish to make it seem that Nero considered it a superstition. I personally consider it a superstition, but that's not germane.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jul, 2013 03:09 pm
@oristarA,
The writer is refering to Christianity as "a most mischievous superstition," he isn't directly saying that Nero is making the reference.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jul, 2013 03:34 pm
By the way, one of the blatant pieces of evidence that this is an interpolation and not a part of the original text is the reference to Pilate as a procurator, an office which did not exist when Pilate lived. Pilate was a prefect, and we know that because it is literally carved in stone. It is carved on the dedicatory inscription of a coliseum he ordered to be built in the prefecture of Iudaea to honor Tiberius.
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jul, 2013 10:36 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

I wan't beating around any bushes--you didn't ask this question before. You make yourself look simple-minded, something i don't believe. The author of the interpolation appears to wish to make it seem that Nero considered it a superstition. I personally consider it a superstition, but that's not germane.


Please reread my first post (the thread) here and you'd know I've asked it in the first place.
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jul, 2013 10:36 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

The writer is refering to Christianity as "a most mischievous superstition," he isn't directly saying that Nero is making the reference.


That's it.
Thank you.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Jul, 2013 01:06 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
I wan't beating around any bushes


That's not idiomatic English, Set.
0 Replies
 
 

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