Myself or me

@Eslteacher2,

alternatively
I will send you my picture

0 Replies

@Eslteacher2,

Of course Ball above is right

However I asked my Better Half, who is much smarter than me, and she said " 'Myself' is more 'highfalutin' "

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A picture of me.

Me is an object pronoun, which means that it refers to the person that the action of a verb is being done to, or to which a preposition refers. A picture of me, a book about me, a song mentioning me, a joke about me, a letter from me, a gift for me, etc.

Myself is a reflexive or stressed pronoun, which means that, generally speaking, it should be used in conjunction with the subject pronoun I, not instead of the object pronoun me. I bought myself a car, I allowed myself to sleep, I did myself a favour, I hurt myself, I washed myself, I dried myself.

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@contrex,

"A picture of me" isn't one of the choices, though.

"I'll send you a picture of. . . " conforms to the conditions you've outlined for the use of "myself," so it's, "I'll send you a picture of myself."

1 Reply

@contrex,

Quote:

Myself is a reflexive or stressed pronoun, which means that, generally speaking, it should be used in conjunction with the subject pronoun I, not instead of the object pronoun me.

"generally speaking"; on what occasions then could the reflexive be used, C?

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@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

"I'll send you a picture of. . . " conforms to the conditions you've outlined for the use of "myself," so it's, "I'll send you a picture of myself."

No, it doesn't. I is linked to send. We use 'myself' in a reflexive situation, that is where an action is applied by an individual to themselves. I hurt myself. I described myself. I cut myself. I took a picture of myself. The picture is of whom? It is of me. I'll send you a picture that I took of myself. I'll send you a picture of me.

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@contrex,

Quote:

I is linked to send.

Myself is a reflexive or stressed pronoun, which means that, generally speaking, it should be used in conjunction with the subject pronoun I, not instead of the object pronoun me.

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"I'll send you a picture of me" is correct.

"I'll send you my picture" is correct, but is ambiguous.

1 Reply

@contrex,

Quote:

We use 'myself' in a reflexive situation, that is where an action is applied by an individual to themselves. I hurt myself.

Thanks Con, the diff hadn't occurred to me, while it's not everyday I learn a new word myself

1 Reply

@contrex,

Quote:

Myself is a reflexive or stressed pronoun, which means that, generally speaking, it should be used in conjunction with the subject pronoun I, not instead of the object pronoun me.

The past tense is past tense, which means that, generally speaking it should be used as a past tense until it isn't used as a past tense. Then it is used in its other capacities in the English language.

The present continuous/progressive is present continuous/progressive, which means that, generally speaking it should be used as a present continuous/progressive until it isn't used as a present continuous/progressive. Then it is used in its other capacities in the English language.

The present tense is present tense, which means that, generally speaking it isn't used as a present tense but serves other functions in its other capacities in the English language.

Just because a particular name is given to some language structure doesn't mean that its use is then frozen by the description. Parts of speech have received names to make them easier to discuss for grammarians/linguists/ teachers/students, not to freeze them in prescribed roles.

Quote:

Two general statements can be made about what these critics say concerning myself: [reflexive pronouns in general] first, they do not like it, and second, they do not know why.

... The evidence should make it plain that the practice of substituting myself or other reflexive pronouns for ordinary personal pronouns is not new - these examples range over four centuries - and it is not rare. ... the practice is by no means limited to informal contexts.

The Merriam-Webster Dictionary of English Usage p647-649

Quote:

Which is correct, and why?
A) I'll send you a picture of myself.
B) I'll send you a picture of me.

To ESLteacher2:

You should make your students aware of these distinctions/nuances regarding reflexive pronouns and let them know that they definitely exist. However, you should counsel them to use them only in the passive sense, ie. to recognize them in native English speakers writing and speech but to avoid using them themselves until they are competent enough to use them naturally.

To help you effectively teach your students, I don't know if you are a native speaker of English [ENL] ESL teacher or a non-native but either way The Merriam-Webster Dictionary of English Usage , which only costs about 20 bucks US is an invaluable, honest resource that answers all these thorny questions with the necessary degree of common sense and reality.

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@McTag,

Quote:

"I'll send you my picture" is correct, but is ambiguous.

With the sentence in isolation, that argument may have some validity. In real life, where context is always available, it has little.

1 Reply

@dalehileman,

Quote:

Thanks Con, the diff hadn't occurred to me, while it's not everyday I learn a new word myself

Con is, quite simply, wrong, Dale. You should have realized that when he failed to address the holes in his argument. He has drawn a distinction/prescription from prescriptivists who were also wrong.

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Oh, well, we can all pack up and go home now, because JTT has spoken.

1 Reply

@contrex,

Quote:

Oh, well, we can all pack up and go home now, because JTT has spoken.

Typical of you, Contrex, to avoid the source material, avoid the terrible inconsistencies in your "argument", avoid actual English language use in favor of this, your usual diversion.

You say you have a degree in English. That, in no way, allows you to make silly pronouncements about how English works.

How is it that an English literature major like you missed this common usage in Samuel Johnson, Jane Austen, Wm Thackeray, Emily Dickinson, Lord Byron, James Boswell, Shakespeare, Ben Jonson, Lewis Carrol, EM Forster, Benjamin Franklin, ... ?

How is it that an English literature major like you missed these folks using reflexive pronouns even as the subject of a verb?

How is it that an English literature major like you missed the fact that the prescriptivists' info on this "appalling error" ["info" that you have simply plagiarized] illustrates that they don't even know why they don't like it?

Here's the prescriptivists' reasoning:

It's "snobbish, unstylish, self-indulgent, ..., old-fashioned, ... "

You get the picture. The typical Contrex [McTag] arguments.

How is it that an English major like you didn't address the sources and arguments put forth that showed you had advanced a specious argument?

From my long experience in the field of ESL, I have noticed that English majors and English professors are among thee most ignorant when it comes to the workings of the English language.

Laughoutlood provided, as a dandy example, what was the first Google hit for, I believe his search query was, "Usage Problems in English".

And you aren't even man enough to cowboy up.

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@JTT,

Quote:

With the sentence in isolation, that argument may have some validity. In real life, where context is always available, it has little.

Translation: I can't find anything wrong with what you say, but I'm determined to have a gripe anyway, to show how petty I am.

1 Reply

@McTag,

Quote:

Translation: I can't find anything wrong with what you say, but I'm determined to have a gripe anyway, to show how petty I am.

Actually, I did find something wrong with what you said, McTag, but I phrased it as nicely as I could.

My greatest interest is in providing accurate information to ESLs. Opinions like yours are grand bits for discussion among ENLs but to my mind, you left the idea that a perfectly natural collocation, used by ENLs, dare I say, a lot, should be eschewed by ESLs.

1 Reply

@JTT,

Quote:

My greatest interest is in providing accurate information to ESLs. Opinions like yours are grand bits for discussion among ENLs but to my mind, you left the idea that a perfectly natural collocation, used by ENLs, dare I say, a lot, should be eschewed by ESLs.

Au contraire, I pointed to a mistake in a suggestion which was not made by the OP. It was not a good suggestion, notwithstanding presence or absence of context. Something for us all to think about. Those who do not understand it, can ask.

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@McTag,

Quote:

Au contraire, I pointed to a mistake in a suggestion which was not made by the OP.

You pointed to nothing, McTag. You gave no reference, you just made what appeared to be an out of the blue comment which, as I've described, determined by my many years in the field of ESL, wasn't something valuable to leave ESLs with.

If you want to include all the pertinent information for your offering, I may well be disposed to offering you an apology. But I'm sure that you can see how it isn't my job to fill in the shortcomings in your posts.

1 Reply

@McTag,

Quote:

Something for us all to think about. Those who do not understand it, can ask.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't it you, Sire, who often complains about about these discussions that get off the topic of the OP?

1 Reply

Myself or me

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