We Have No Privacy, We Are Always Being Watched.

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

There's too much data for them to watch everything you do.

Two things:

Capabilities have expanded enormously, and continue to expand.

Also, I'm not really comfortable with the idea that my privacy relies solely on someone else's lack of interest.

1 Reply

@roger,

roger wrote:

DrewDad wrote:

There's too much data for them to watch everything you do.

Two things:

Capabilities have expanded enormously, and continue to expand.

Also, I'm not really comfortable with the idea that my privacy relies solely on someone else's lack of interest.

Have you given any consideration to the fact that guaranteeing "your" privacy may be a huge negative for the safety and well-being of society in general?

Do you care about the general well-being of society...or are you stuck primarily on yourself?

5 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

frank, that sounds vaguely h20manlike...

how is the wellbeing of society being threatened exactly that I hafta let someone track everything I do?

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Not so. They have rejected 11.

Out of thousands of course, but still they have rejected a few.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

So, you are making it a simple yes or no choice. We can give up all security for complete privacy, or give up all privacy in exchange for total security. Neither is even possible, and neither is the issue.

Indeed, I am somewhat surprised at the way you chose to frame the situation. Yes Frank, you have just proven I'm stuck primarily on myself. You caught me out, and there isn't anywhere to go from there, is there?

1 Reply

@Rockhead,

Quote:

Rockhead wrote:

frank, that sounds vaguely h20manlike...

Ouch! And ouch, again.

Quote:

how is the wellbeing of society being threatened exactly that I hafta let someone track everything I do?

There is this thing called "terrorism." It has been around for a while...and has been discussed a good deal in the media. Lots of bad things have happened because of it.

Our leaders have concluded that one way to at least attempt to deter terrorists...is to use methods that are besing discussed here.

Actually, they do not know who is a terrorist and who is not. So they kinda have to keep tabs on all sorts of things to try to sort things out.

They do not "keep track of everything" even suspected terrorists do...let alone what you do. But they are doing more and more surveillence and checking of stuff they previously did not check.

As for me...let 'em check. My suspicions are that democracy works better if we give up some of the supposed rights we have...in the interests of protecting the full well-being.

Some people disagree with me on that...and disagree strongly. Perhaps you do.

What could I tell ya????

2 Replies

@roger,

roger wrote:

So, you are making it a simple yes or no choice. We can give up all security for complete privacy, or give up all privacy in exchange for total security.

Did you make that up by yourself, Roger...or did you have help?

If you had help, fire the person. He/she does not know how to read, because I did not say anything remotely like that.

Quote:

Neither is even possible, and neither is the issue.

I agree with you completely on this, Roger...and I am baffled as to why you made it up.

Quote:

Indeed, I am somewhat surprised at the way you chose to frame the situation. Yes Frank, you have just proven I'm stuck primarily on myself. You caught me out, and there isn't anywhere to go from there, is there.

Is that your final answer?

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

In any society there will always be tension between individual rights and the interests of the collective.

It's something of a cheap argument to suggest that someone concerned with individual rights is selfish and uninterested in the general well-being of society.

The Founders did a remarkable job in addressing this tension and establishing a proper, albeit uneasy, balance. So much so that the protection of individual rights guaranteed by our constitution enhances rather than diminshes the well being of our society.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

In any society there will always be tension between individual rights and the interests of the collective.

It's something of a cheap argument to suggest that someone concerned with individual rights is selfish and uninterested in the general well-being of society.

I suggested that it is something that should be considered...especially by people who are lamenting "the great loss of freedom" being experienced in America...and who are doing it on-line with impunity.

Quote:

The Founders did a remarkable job in addressing this tension and establishing a proper, albeit uneasy, balance. So much so that the protection of individual rights guaranteed by our constitution enhances rather than diminshes the well being of our society.

At some point, all of us had better come to an understanding that the political decisions of almost 300 years ago should be taken with a couple grains of salt...just as the moral decisions of 2000+ years ago might be outdated.

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

here's the rub, frank.

the anti-terrorism boys have hitched their wagon to commerce.

and now commerce is tracking my every move, and saving it for anti-terrorism.

and I don't trust commerce at all...

(not to mention that I think there are better ways to fight "terrorism" whatever that really is...)

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

At some point, all of us had better come to an understanding that the political decisions of almost 300 years ago should be taken with a couple grains of salt...just as the moral decisions of 2000+ years ago might be outdated

During the events of my lifetime I have seen no indication that the Constitution is outdated.

Quote:

"Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it"

William Pitt the Elder, Earl of Chatham, 1770

1 Reply

@Rockhead,

Rockhead wrote:

here's the rub, frank.

the anti-terrorism boys have hitched their wagon to commerce.

and now commerce is tracking my every move, and saving it for anti-terrorism.

and I don't trust commerce at all...

(not to mention that I think there are better ways to fight "terrorism" whatever that really is...)

I get what you are saying...and I acknowledge it. I am of a different mind on a couple of points, but you are entitled to your opinion. In any case, I see things moving toward less privacy...and I personally do not see that as negatively as other do.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Well, here's what you wrote Frank:

"Do you care about the general well-being of society...or are you stuck primarily on yourself?"

Apparently roger and I interpreted it exactly the same way, but if you wish to disingeuously insist that all you were doing was making a suggestion for consideration, so be it.

Our constitution doesn't represent the political decisions of 250 or so years ago, it represents a philosophical position on the relationship between those who govern and those who are governed, and a very practical blueprint for a system that acknowledges and deals with that position.

Do you really think because you drive a car and access a computer that you are somehow better equipped to understand the fundamental principles of society and government than Jefferson, Madison, Hamilton et al, or that you are more current on morality than Jesus, the Buddha, Lao Tzu et al?

I guarantee you that 250 years ago there were folks laying claim to greater insight and understanding that those that preceded them by 250 years, and I guarantee you that 250 years hence there will be folks who will regard us as ignorant morons for no other reason than temporal positioning.

By your way of thinking we should pretty much disregard whatever you think and say because a few hundred years from now it should be taken with a couple of grains of salt.

0 Replies

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
At some point, all of us had better come to an understanding that the political decisions of almost 300 years ago should be taken with a couple grains of salt...just as the moral decisions of 2000+ years ago might be outdated

During the events of my lifetime I have seen no indication that the Constitution is outdated.

I have.

Quote:

"Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it"

William Pitt the Elder, Earl of Chatham, 1770
[/quote]

Could be. I am not suggesting anyone have "unlimited power."

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

..or are you stuck primarily on yourself?

Jeeze!! The Houdini punch again.

0 Replies

How's it even possible that I would side with Finn dAbuzz against Frank Apisa on any issue whatever? How is that possible? Nevertheless, there it is.

1 Reply

@Lustig Andrei,

Every now and again you experience lucid thought.

0 Replies

If I have a vote...

...and my vote would be "screw my rights of privacy...take care of the bigger picture."

So...you guys disagree.

Okay with me.

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Not like you to scuttle off into the corner and pout.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank, if someone could actually convince me that by giving up my right to privacy and allowing the gummint to stick its proboscis into places it has no business visiting would really help prevent another 9/11 or Boston Marathon disaster, I'd agree with you. But I have absolutely not one scintilla of faith that this is so. And no one has as yet presented an argument for it that I would buy into. Do you actually trust these people who're running this show?

3 Replies

We Have No Privacy, We Are Always Being Watched.

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