Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

@Frank Apisa,

The Catholics are not part of the church. They are a church of Satan.

Remember I talked about the Romans? So it's like this. After centuries of persecuting Christianity doing no good, Constantine figures out that he can destroy it from within. So he supposedly has a dream where he sees a Px (chi ro) symbol in front of the sun. Constantine was always a sun worshipper, and this didn't change after his so-called conversion. Catholicism will tell you that this is a lie, that the church has always been Catholic and claims they were founded by Jesus himself. Yeah right. Because Jesus used wafers instead of bread and wine. Because Jesus built temples and set up complicated hierarchy. All of this can be traced back to a supposed relaxing of Roman law, designed to subvert the church by making it complacent. The Early Church was a true Church. The Protestant Church is a true Church. The Catholics are not a church at all, but and attempt to distort Christianity.

The Pope is political figure, not a religious one. "If my kingdom were of this world, my followers would fight for me..." This is the true Church, made up of people who loved Jesus and didn't give a damn about what seems popular or socially accepted. Christianity is to be at odds with the Ten Kingdoms, the mashup of multinational companies or governments or pseudo-religious political power groups. It is at odds with them, again not by fighting with them but by exposing them as false, and remembering that their days are numbered. Christianity is in the world but not of the world. And you would do well to remember that this hippie ideal of Jesus is wrong. Jesus told his followers at one point to carry swords. He says a number of things that are at odds with this peaceful shepherd ideal you seem to have. Not that he was militant either. But overturning tables was quite possible for him.

One thing Jesus did value was speaking the truth. So when a group calls themselves Christianity but goes around worshipping Mary, we have Jesus's own teachings predicting false prophets (Constantine, Joseph Smith, Muhammad). And we have Galatians, which says in no uncertain terms that a gospel other than the one taught is under a curse.

The teachings of Jesus:
1. Love your enemies (notice even though I clearly say the Catholic are not Christianity, I also don't advocate firebombing cathedrals)
2. Love your neighbor as yourself (this is mistakenly thought of as a sort of preemptive martyrdom thing, where you let others walk all over you, but this is NOT the gospel. Jesus set clear boundaries and expectations not only to his followers but even to his mother. When he's called by his brothers and his mother, he's like "no, these are my family" pointing to his disciple. When people wanna be healed, he often asks them to do something hard or tests them. He doesn't go around giving handouts, he makes the foreign woman defend her faith by calling her a dog. To love your neighbor as yourself means actually ******* respecting yourself, and not letting other people use or abuse you. And trying to do it the same for others)
3. Preparedness for the End Times (Several of his teachings were warnings of future events, such as false prophets, wars, or disasters. He also taught that the Temple was a manmade structure, and we shouldn't see its falling as a sign of end-times but should instead look to the temple that would be rebuilt in three days (Jesus himself))
4. That death is nor something to fear. He not only healed people, but also raised a few, including Lazarus.
5. Sabbath law reform, particularly extending pikuach nefesh to healing.
6. Hosea 6:6. He not only quotes it frequently in the Gospel, but when we look at the judgement day prophecy (where the king is condemning people for not comforting the hungry, thirsty, naked, etc) , it can also be read as a false teaching. In other words, this is not God but how the Pharisees see God. They see nothing but condemnation of others, so they are convinced that God will condemn them. That is, because they don't have mercy in their hearts, a loving God looks cruel to them.
7. A personal relationship with God. It's tempting to view Christianity as a sort of constant service to the poor, again misunderstanding "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." I tried to live by this, and wound up used and abused. The opposite extreme of treating people like crap is no good either. Rather than overemphasizing this, remember he also says " The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me. " Your mission, first and foremost is to remember to build a true relationship with Christ. While it's a good feed to try to help the poor, and you should definitely do it, when you have about $2000 in the bank, he's not telling you to go bankrupt. You can never fix poverty, it's part of this imperfect world. You can help, but the more important thing is to help as a church, to build group fellowship. And honestly, to connect with other people.I know this is important because I'm a horribly antisocial person, but this has always brought me true joy. Unselfish giving just made me feel exploited, since I often didn't have the money to give away. Yes, yes, I know you'll probably shame me for not doing enough. **** off. You probably make 20x what I do in a year, but anything I give is a bigger percent.
8. Which brings us to an important lesson. We are taught from Jesus about charity, but a careful reading of passages like the Widow's Mite tells us that while Jesus holds up the widow giving everything she had, Jesus also teaches about how the priests and Pharisees take everything from the widows and orphans. They are so concerned with having their sins forgiven, that they try to buy out of them, often spending their bread money. This is important, and we'll refer back to it.

Now, what do Catholics believe?
1. Treasury of Merit. That Mary was sooooo holy, that she had an excess of merit. This led to indulgences, and although these are largely gone, there is still the same crap going on as in Jesus's time. The idea that works can do anything to save a person. Not to mention the constant penance exercises.
2. Bread and wine are not just symbols of the body and blood of Christ, but literally become them. This is a magic trick, not rea theology.
3. That Mary was married to God not Joseph, and never haf any children besideas Jesus.
4. That statues of Mary and the saints can be "venerated" (*cough* worshipped) but somehow this isn't idolatry to worship mortals instead of God incarnate.
5. That Mary is the Mother of God, instead of merely Jesus. This sets her up as a rival to God. That Mary can intercede for sins.
6. One word: Abstinence. The Catholic church didn't want priests to marry, because they'd take this money they made and will it outside the church itself. This notion of priests not getting married led to two different issues at least, the abandonment of women the priests slept with to utter poverty, and lately the unnatural relationships of priests with same sex minors (as in prison, this behavior has nothing to do with sexual preference and everything to do with denying natural relationships).
7. Papal infallibility. The Pope is nothing more than a political figurwe, but what he says goes, even if it blatantly defies biblical teaching.

Catholicism is a corrupt wicked faith that has nothing to do with the teachings of Christ. It is the blind leading the blind into a pit. As a Christian, I forgive the followers of such a faith, but I would hope that the leaders know shame when they meet their Maker, for causing suffering to their members. Catholics don't often know a damned thing about grace, being taught instead that they have to earn forgiveness. In other words, they are taught that Christ died for nothing. So tell me, how does this follow the teachings of Jesus?

1 Reply

@bulmabriefs144,

bulmabriefs144 wrote:

The Catholics are not part of the church. They are a church of Satan.

Good girl, Bulma. You are right on the mark. Hate that church with every ounce of strength you have. You show them how to act like a follower of Christ, because that is what he preached...to hate as much as possible.

Quote:

Remember I talked about the Romans? So it's like this. After centuries of persecuting Christianity doing no good, Constantine figures out that he can destroy it from within. So he supposedly has a dream where he sees a Px (chi ro) symbol in front of the sun. Constantine was always a sun worshipper, and this didn't change after his so-called conversion. Catholicism will tell you that this is a lie, that the church has always been Catholic and claims they were founded by Jesus himself. Yeah right. Because Jesus used wafers instead of bread and wine. Because Jesus built temples and set up complicated hierarchy. All of this can be traced back to a supposed relaxing of Roman law, designed to subvert the church by making it complacent. The Early Church was a true Church. The Protestant Church is a true Church. The Catholics are not a church at all, but and attempt to distort Christianity.

You go, girl. Show them how much you can hate. Jesus would have loved that.

Quote:

The Pope is political figure, not a religious one. "If my kingdom were of this world, my followers would fight for me..." This is the true Church, made up of people who loved Jesus and didn't give a damn about what seems popular or socially accepted. Christianity is to be at odds with the Ten Kingdoms, the mashup of multinational companies or governments or pseudo-religious political power groups. It is at odds with them, again not by fighting with them but by exposing them as false, and remembering that their days are numbered. Christianity is in the world but not of the world. And you would do well to remember that this hippie ideal of Jesus is wrong. Jesus told his followers at one point to carry swords. He says a number of things that are at odds with this peaceful shepherd ideal you seem to have. Not that he was militant either. But overturning tables was quite possible for him.

You are showing us what true Christianity is all about. Gotta honor you for that.

Quote:

One thing Jesus did value was speaking the truth. So when a group calls themselves Christianity but goes around worshipping Mary, we have Jesus's own teachings predicting false prophets (Constantine, Joseph Smith, Muhammad). And we have Galatians, which says in no uncertain terms that a gospel other than the one taught is under a curse.

Bad church...versus good church, the one you are talking about...the one that teaches hatred in the name of Jesus.

You go!

Quote:

The teachings of Jesus:
1. Love your enemies (notice even though I clearly say the Catholic are not Christianity, I also don't advocate firebombing cathedrals)
2. Love your neighbor as yourself (this is mistakenly thought of as a sort of preemptive martyrdom thing, where you let others walk all over you, but this is NOT the gospel. Jesus set clear boundaries and expectations not only to his followers but even to his mother. When he's called by his brothers and his mother, he's like "no, these are my family" pointing to his disciple. When people wanna be healed, he often asks them to do something hard or tests them. He doesn't go around giving handouts, he makes the foreign woman defend her faith by calling her a dog. To love your neighbor as yourself means actually ******* respecting yourself, and not letting other people use or abuse you. And trying to do it the same for others)
3. Preparedness for the End Times (Several of his teachings were warnings of future events, such as false prophets, wars, or disasters. He also taught that the Temple was a manmade structure, and we shouldn't see its falling as a sign of end-times but should instead look to the temple that would be rebuilt in three days (Jesus himself))
4. That death is nor something to fear. He not only healed people, but also raised a few, including Lazarus.
5. Sabbath law reform, particularly extending pikuach nefesh to healing.
6. Hosea 6:6. He not only quotes it frequently in the Gospel, but when we look at the judgement day prophecy (where the king is condemning people for not comforting the hungry, thirsty, naked, etc) , it can also be read as a false teaching. In other words, this is not God but how the Pharisees see God. They see nothing but condemnation of others, so they are convinced that God will condemn them. That is, because they don't have mercy in their hearts, a loving God looks cruel to them.
7. A personal relationship with God. It's tempting to view Christianity as a sort of constant service to the poor, again misunderstanding "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." I tried to live by this, and wound up used and abused. The opposite extreme of treating people like crap is no good either. Rather than overemphasizing this, remember he also says " The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me. " Your mission, first and foremost is to remember to build a true relationship with Christ. While it's a good feed to try to help the poor, and you should definitely do it, when you have about $2000 in the bank, he's not telling you to go bankrupt. You can never fix poverty, it's part of this imperfect world. You can help, but the more important thing is to help as a church, to build group fellowship. And honestly, to connect with other people.I know this is important because I'm a horribly antisocial person, but this has always brought me true joy. Unselfish giving just made me feel exploited, since I often didn't have the money to give away. Yes, yes, I know you'll probably shame me for not doing enough. **** off. You probably make 20x what I do in a year, but anything I give is a bigger percent.
8. Which brings us to an important lesson. We are taught from Jesus about charity, but a careful reading of passages like the Widow's Mite tells us that while Jesus holds up the widow giving everything she had, Jesus also teaches about how the priests and Pharisees take everything from the widows and orphans. They are so concerned with having their sins forgiven, that they try to buy out of them, often spending their bread money. This is important, and we'll refer back to it.

Now, what do Catholics believe?
1. Treasury of Merit. That Mary was sooooo holy, that she had an excess of merit. This led to indulgences, and although these are largely gone, there is still the same crap going on as in Jesus's time. The idea that works can do anything to save a person. Not to mention the constant penance exercises.
2. Bread and wine are not just symbols of the body and blood of Christ, but literally become them. This is a magic trick, not rea theology.
3. That Mary was married to God not Joseph, and never haf any children besideas Jesus.
4. That statues of Mary and the saints can be "venerated" (*cough* worshipped) but somehow this isn't idolatry to worship mortals instead of God incarnate.
5. That Mary is the Mother of God, instead of merely Jesus. This sets her up as a rival to God. That Mary can intercede for sins.
6. One word: Abstinence. The Catholic church didn't want priests to marry, because they'd take this money they made and will it outside the church itself. This notion of priests not getting married led to two different issues at least, the abandonment of women the priests slept with to utter poverty, and lately the unnatural relationships of priests with same sex minors (as in prison, this behavior has nothing to do with sexual preference and everything to do with denying natural relationships).
7. Papal infallibility. The Pope is nothing more than a political figurwe, but what he says goes, even if it blatantly defies biblical teaching.

Catholicism is a corrupt wicked faith that has nothing to do with the teachings of Christ. It is the blind leading the blind into a pit. As a Christian, I forgive the followers of such a faith, but I would hope that the leaders know shame when they meet their Maker, for causing suffering to their members. Catholics don't often know a damned thing about grace, being taught instead that they have to earn forgiveness. In other words, they are taught that Christ died for nothing. So tell me, how does this follow the teachings of Jesus?

YEAH, Bulma. You personify the teachings of Jesus.

Let's have an AMEN to all that.

1 Reply

@hester831,

hester831 wrote:

Where would you say the Holy Ghost is now? How can God contradict himself? Isn't it more likely foolish men are falling short of perfection here? (Rhetorical questions - forgive me!)

Where would you like that hypothetical Jew victim in 11th century Europe to be NOW? How do YOU PRESUME INNOCENCE when all souls belong to Jesus Christ, who by the way, was a Jewish man? If a heretic or witch or criminal is executed (on a cross perhaps?) regardless of guilt, what more can be done to that person? Fear not the one who can destroy the body only, but the body and the soul. I accept everyone can choose their own religion. Everybody here rejects Traditional Catholicism which is news to me! I WILL NOT tolerate my own moral cowardice in the outrages committed in this forum against God Almighty, his Church triumphant
and militant, and Mary Theotokos Queen of Heaven and Earth. Until then, there's not some "spiritual battle" remotely fought against invisible boogeymen. Without the Holy Wars and Crusades Europe would have fallen to the Muslims and their holy wars and jihads and you would be defending Mohammad instead of Paul. See the difference yet? I doubt it, but I tried!

The Holy Spirit is working in the lives of Christians today. Through the process of sanctification He is making each individual Christian more and more like Jesus.
No, Christians are not perfect as Jesus is perfect in character. However, the Holy Spirit helps us make progress.
In both Testaments God wants us to place our trust in Him. All glory should go to God.
An example is Joshua and Jericho. Without God nothing is accomplished by marching around the walls of a city and blowing horns. It was God who knocked down the walls of Jericho.
Another example is Gideon. God told Gideon to reduce his army substantially so that God would get the glory for Israel's victory.
Jesus said that nothing will destroy His Church. God will protect it against Moslims, Communist regimes, or any other enemy of the Church.
An argument can be made from a political point of view for the Catholic Church protecting itself from jihad. The Catholic Church was pretty much the government. However, Jews were in no way a political threat. And it was spiritually senseless to kill any Jew.
Finally, even a casual view of the Old Testament will show people that the Jews are "God's chosen people". God will never allow the Jewish people to become extinct. And the New Testament supports this.

0 Replies

@The Anointed,

There are several passages in the Old Testament that are meaningful both at the present time and at a future time. Gen 3:15 is an example. So is Isaiah 7:14. It is easy to miss the future significance of the passage. Matthew focuses on the future emphasis of Isaiah 7:14. A key to Isaiah 7:14 is the word Immanuel. Nobody at the time of Isaiah was worthy of the term.

1 Reply

@NealNealNeal,

Quote:

Matthew focuses on the future emphasis of Isaiah 7:14. A key to Isaiah 7:14 is the word Immanuel.

In 1973, an ecumenical edition of RSV was approved by both Protestant and Catholic hierarchies, called the common bible. A New English Translation of the Bible, published in 1970 and approved by the council of churches in England, Scotland, Wales, the Irish council of churches, the London Society of Friends, and the Methodist and Presbyterian churches of England, all translate Isaiah 7: 14; “A young Woman is with child, and she will bear a son.”

Also, The Good News Bible, Catholic Study Edition, reads, Isaiah 7: 14; “A young woman who is pregnant will have a son, etc.” As these religious bodies all now accept that Isaiah was not referring to a virgin in that famous passage, they must now accept that the authors of the Septuagint and the translators of the Gospel of Matthew from the Hebrew to Greek, who were forced to use the Greek term “Parthenos” in reference to Isaiah’s prophecy, were in no way implying that the pregnant Mary, was still a virgin.

Matthew 1: 22-23; should now read; ‘Now all this happened to make come true what the Lord had said through the prophet [Isaiah],’ “An unmarried woman/Almah who is pregnant will bear a son and he will be called immanuel: (“which means God is with us.”)

The point of the prophecy is not in the fact that an unmarried woman would bear a son, but that a child conceived out of wedlock (A Bastard) would be seen as the vessel in which the Lord would reveal himself to us, (“God is with us.”)

Jesus was born of the flesh from the union of Mary and her half-brother Joseph, who were both sired by Heli=Alexander Helios III. He was later born a son of God, Not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of Man, but of the spirit of our Lord, who descended upon Jesus on the day that he was baptised, as the heavenly voice was heard to say, “You are my son ‘THIS DAY’ I have begotten thee,” or as said in Hebrews 5: 5; “You are my son ‘TODAY’ I have become your Father.”

If Jesus was not born of the flesh as all human beings are, but was born of a virgin without male semen having been introduced into her uterus, then this would have been the greatest of all miracles, and would have been shouted from the roof tops by all four gospel writers and yet we see that Mark, who is believed to have been the son of Peter, and John the beloved disciple, ignore the physical birth of Jesus as being totally irrelevant to the story of salvation and begin their account of He who was sent in the name of the Lord, with the Baptism of the man Jesus, when he was born of the spirit that descended upon him in the form of a dove, as the heavenly voice was heard to say, “You are my son, Today I have begotten thee.”

We also know that Matthew 1: 22-23; should now read; ‘Now all this happened to make come true what the Lord had said through the prophet [Isaiah],’ “An unmarried woman/Almah who is pregnant will bear a son and he will be called Immanuel: (“which means God is with us.”)

In Luke 1, when Mary said to the messenger of God; “I am a virgin. How, then, can this be?”
He answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will over shadow you, etc.

In the genealogy of Joseph ben Jacob, who married the already pregnant Mary, and who did not consummate that union until after she had given birth to her firstborn son [Jesus], which genealogy is recorded in Matthew, five righteous women are mentioned: Tamar, who played the prostitute and seduced Judah, her father-in law into having sex with her, by which union she conceived and later bore his twin sons, Perez and Zerah. Then there is Rahab the madam of a whore house in Jericho, who saved the Israelite spies and who later married Salmon, and bore his son ‘Boaz.’ The third is Ruth, who with sexual cunning deceived Boaz into marrying her, to whom she bore ‘Obed.’ The fourth is Bathsheba, who committed adultery with King David, who had her husband ‘Uriah’ killed, and she was the mother of Solomon, of whom the Lord said; “He shall be my son and I shall be his Father and it is he who shall build my temple for me.” [See 2nd Samuel 7: 14. and 1st Chronicles 17: 13.] Solomon was then blessed with the rulership of the most glorious period of Israel’s history. And last of all is Mary who united with her half-brother Joseph ben Alexander Helios, to conceive and bear Jesus, who the Lord was later to ordain as the Messiah.

The righteous actions of these women were hidden in the shadows beneath the wings of the Lord of spirits.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Yes I know.

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/intermediary/f/dca3717a-62fe-4d77-90b3-30ed9af5c242/dcu83v0-5b8d66ee-dbf4-4e34-ac10-062cb9895ea4.jpg

Quote:

Yes, you personify the teachings of Jesus Christ

No, I don't. "All of us us are sinners. All have fallen short."

It is not intended for me to be perfect, as I am a human being. We strive, we get better, but the point of life is not to get better. Some of us try to be happy and are fine how things are, but the point is not to stay the same either. The point is as humans, we live and die. We are human.

This is why you love the sinner and hate the sin. It is okay that thousands of people live under the toxic theology of Catholicism, where people shamed their entire lives and told to go like clockwork to confession. "Forgive me father for I have sinned." "(What is it this time...) What seems to be the nature of your sin, Miss Kowalski. " "I have run over a squirrel by accident, killing an innocent life." " (Oh cmon, a squirrel? Can't you just forgive yourself and move on?) Very well. Recite the 23rd Psalm and dance around in a circle. Then your sins will be forgiven. "
In case you haven't figure out from this confession parody, saying words is not enough for any sort of forgiveness, you have to put in the work. And to some people, there is nothing you can do to please them. God is one of those. God gives zero fucks if you won the Miss America pageant for suggesting we all have world peace. But God also doesn't care if everyone else hates you.

It is also okay to rightly call such a faith that creates nervous ruined people toxic. Just as it is to call a system that creates crazed jihadist bombers like the ones on 9/11 toxic. But you love the sinner, hate the sin. It's important to know that when Biden left Afghanistan to its own devices, he abandoned these people to torment. Even if they should later commit desperate or violent actions, they are victims of a toxic belief system.

And you should call bad belief systems like you see them.

Suppose there was a religion that demanded if you are doing something wrong, you shouldn't accept it as sin, because that would offend people. And being honest with people is hate (this, ladies and gentlemen is the theology you and many other liberals ascribe to, that goodness equals forgiving sins... by turning a blind eye to them). So when a child is a brat, don't tell the kid "no" because it might hurt their self-esteem. When someone is a conpulsive eater, absinthe addict, or violent thug, don't call them out on this, because that would be hateful. Instead let the fat person eat until they die, let the addict also suffer terrible addiction and withdrawal symptoms before they too die, and let the violent thug rob a convenience store and kill four people before a cop shoots him. It's not over. Then you blame the cop for his death. You say that the police should be defunded because they are violent, and because they stop these poor (thugs) from (brutalizing the public). You have an epidemic of crime and violence, and who do you blame? You blame the "hateful" people who told you the truth. Real Christians who didn't roll over for this crap, but voted no on defunding police. Police who were doing their job when thugs "only wanted" to hurt people. Fine, you go ahead and live in these messed-up communities... what's that, you're moving?? Well surely you've learned something from this experience... nahhhh. You're calling for programs to make the town you moved into identical to the one you left.
I can rightly call this belief system dysfunctional. But you're the victim of it, as long as you don't learn anything.

1 Reply

@The Anointed,

I am interested in the truth, not what an ecumenical group of people decided in the 1970s.
Jesus was "God with us". The traditional Catholic Church is correct that Mary was a virgin when Jesus was born.

2 Replies

@bulmabriefs144,

bulmabriefs144 wrote:

Yes I know.

Quote:
Yes, you personify the teachings of Jesus Christ

No, I don't. "All of us us are sinners. All have fallen short."

It is not intended for me to be perfect, as I am a human being. We strive, we get better, but the point of life is not to get better. Some of us try to be happy and are fine how things are, but the point is not to stay the same either. The point is as humans, we live and die. We are human.

This is why you love the sinner and hate the sin. It is okay that thousands of people live under the toxic theology of Catholicism, where people shamed their entire lives and told to go like clockwork to confession. "Forgive me father for I have sinned." "(What is it this time...) What seems to be the nature of your sin, Miss Kowalski. " "I have run over a squirrel by accident, killing an innocent life." " (Oh cmon, a squirrel? Can't you just forgive yourself and move on?) Very well. Recite the 23rd Psalm and dance around in a circle. Then your sins will be forgiven. "
In case you haven't figure out from this confession parody, saying words is not enough for any sort of forgiveness, you have to put in the work. And to some people, there is nothing you can do to please them. God is one of those. God gives zero fucks if you won the Miss America pageant for suggesting we all have world peace. But God also doesn't care if everyone else hates you.

It is also okay to rightly call such a faith that creates nervous ruined people toxic. Just as it is to call a system that creates crazed jihadist bombers like the ones on 9/11 toxic. But you love the sinner, hate the sin. It's important to know that when Biden left Afghanistan to its own devices, he abandoned these people to torment. Even if they should later commit desperate or violent actions, they are victims of a toxic belief system.

And you should call bad belief systems like you see them.

Suppose there was a religion that demanded if you are doing something wrong, you shouldn't accept it as sin, because that would offend people. And being honest with people is hate (this, ladies and gentlemen is the theology you and many other liberals ascribe to, that goodness equals forgiving sins... by turning a blind eye to them). So when a child is a brat, don't tell the kid "no" because it might hurt their self-esteem. When someone is a conpulsive eater, absinthe addict, or violent thug, don't call them out on this, because that would be hateful. Instead let the fat person eat until they die, let the addict also suffer terrible addiction and withdrawal symptoms before they too die, and let the violent thug rob a convenience store and kill four people before a cop shoots him. It's not over. Then you blame the cop for his death. You say that the police should be defunded because they are violent, and because they stop these poor (thugs) from (brutalizing the public). You have an epidemic of crime and violence, and who do you blame? You blame the "hateful" people who told you the truth. Real Christians who didn't roll over for this crap, but voted no on defunding police. Police who were doing their job when thugs "only wanted" to hurt people. Fine, you go ahead and live in these messed-up communities... what's that, you're moving?? Well surely you've learned something from this experience... nahhhh. You're calling for programs to make the town you moved into identical to the one you left.
I can rightly call this belief system dysfunctional. But you're the victim of it, as long as you don't learn anything.

You are the one doing the hating, Bulma. In fairness to you, it is the one thing you do well. You are an excellent hater...I give you that.

So you think that your blind guess that a god exists...is better than the blind guess made by others that no gods exist.

Okay...cute.

And you think that your blind guesses about what pleases or offends that god are better than the blind guesses made by others who differ with you.

Okay...also cute.

So...now you are free to make other blind guesses...and to defend your blind guesses as though it makes any sense at all. (Which it doesn't.)

0 Replies

@NealNealNeal,

Note: While I do not believe that Mary was sinless, I do believe that she was a remarkable woman. People were relatively old before God could trust them with their "mission". Mary was only around 14 years old. Any Christian should agree that Mary was a very godly woman.

1 Reply

@NealNealNeal,

What's remarkable is how God worked through her.

Just as God works through all of us, if we let him.

The angels appear to humans, and ppl somtimes worship them. But they quickly point out that only God should be worshiped, that they are creations just like humans. Angels. With awesome powers. With awesome beauty.

https://ilovebeingchristian.com/wp-content/uploads/Facebook-FeaturedImage-WhitePlayButton-3-copy-6191-735x413.jpg

Telling ppl the truth, that nothing of this world is to be fawned over. No matter how pretty.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=81d84iBhUjg

Jesus is canonically the Son of God. And part of the Trinity. You can (maybe) worship Jesus. If you can worship the other aspect such as the Holy Spirit. Other than that, only God deserves your praise. Not Mary. Not Peter. Not Paul.

You could make a case that Lazarus also raised from the dead. Nobody is worshipping him.

0 Replies

@NealNealNeal,

[/quote]I am interested in the truth, not what an ecumenical group of people decided in the 1970s. Jesus was "God with us". The traditional Catholic Church is correct that Mary was a virgin when Jesus was born.quote]

If you believe the traditional Catholic Church is correct, then you believe the lie.

Helena was the mother of Emperor Constantine, who established his Universal church in 325 AD, some 300 years after Jesus had established his apostolic church in Jerusalem.

Constantine appointed his mother Helena as Augusta and gave her unlimited access to the imperial treasury in order to locate the relics of early Judeo-Christian times. And the church of the Nativity in Bethlehem of Judaea, was originally financed and built by Helena the mother of Emperor Constantine, who have both been deified as saints by the Universal church that was established in 325 AD.

According to the traditions of the Church of Constantine, Mary and her child [supposedly] rested in a cave, called the Milk Grotto (la Gruta de la Leche), near the place where today stands the Church of the Nativity (la Iglesia de la Natividad). There, (Or so it is said) their supposed Virgin Mary breastfed the child Jesus to keep it quiet, while the soldiers of Herod were slaughtering the innocent children in Bethlehem of Judaea. A drop of milk [supposedly] fell on a stone of the cave, and the stone was supposed to have magically turned white. During the early centuries, this white rock, diluted in water, took the appearance of milk and was used as a religious relic.

Both Christians and Muslims believe scrapings from the stones in the grotto boost the quantity of a mother’s milk and enhance fertility. Mothers usually mix it in their drinking water; would-be mothers place the MAGICAL rock under their mattress.

There is also an old tradition which originated from the universal church of Constantine that identifies this as the burial site of the young victims of Herod’s Slaughter of the Innocents. There is a chapel dedicated to them in the caves beneath the Church of St. Catherine. None of this can be historically or biblically supported.

According to the traditions handed down by their saint Helena, it was in 6 BC, in the first few days after the birth of the child that the wise men paid homage to the baby Jesus in the manger in Bethlehem of Judaea, and immediately after the wise men were supposed to have left, Herod’s men began killing all the male children in that district who were two-years and below, while Mary supposedly hid in the milk Grotto, after which, Joseph and Mary with the baby Jesus, are said by Helena to have fled from Bethlehem of Judaea into the land of Egypt, where, according to Helena, they must have remained for two years, until Herod died in 4 BC.

If any of the above is true, then that would mean that Mary could not have presented Jesus in the Temple in Jerusalem and performed the ceremony of purification according to the time prescribed by the law of Moses, until Jesus was over two-years old and after the death of Herod the great in 4 B.C. when they were supposed to have returned from Egypt.

Tell me Neil, when did the wise men, after seeing the heavenly sign that had heralded the birth of Jesus, travel to Jerusalem to pay homage to the promised Messiah.

See Matthew 2: 7; So Herod called the visitors from the east to a secret meeting and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared.

See Matthew 2: 16; When Herod realized that the visitors from the east had tricked him, he was furious. He gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its neighbourhood who were two years old and younger — this was done in accordance with what he had learned from the visitors about the time when the star had appeared.

Almost two years after the birth of Jesus, the wise men from the east came looking for the child that had been born to be the King of the Jews.

Do you want to continue to believe in the traditions of the Catholic church?

1 Reply

KEEP AT IT, CHRISTIANS.

HATE EACH OTHER.

CALL EACH OTHER LIARS AND KNAVES.

SHOW THE WORLD WHAT "CHRISTIANITY" IS ALL ABOUT!

AFTER ALL, THAT IS WHAT JESUS WOULD ASK YOU TO DO, RIGHT?

0 Replies

Quote:

I come not to bring peace, but a sword.

2 Replies

@Leadfoot,

Someone gets it.

There's a reason why there are different denominations.

It has nothing to do with "hate." It has to do with Jesus being about radical honesty. The entire non-Christian world taught "keep your nose down, follow the rules, be a people-pleaser." Judaism was revolutionary at the time of human sacrifice cults, where they decidedly refused to go along with this stuff. They were a small light in a dark world. But by the time the world had civilized and there was a Roman Empire, they weren't much different from polite society. Jesus comes along, and he says what's the point if everyone likes you but you lose your soul? Yeah, I've been there, working at a job, and my parents are so pleased. And my friends seem happy. And I'm miserable, because I'm not ever doing what I wanna do, I'm doing what the boss wants. I was perfectly happy with this one job, until I saw some cute little girl who kept getting $14 debt because her mom was out of town and she couldn't get books back easily, so I decided to waive some of it, and pay off the rest out of pocket. When her mom came the next day to pay it off, she found they had credit, and I was in trouble. The extra money was there, but from that point on, I was on probation, and my hours were cut ( I eventually got fired, but I was heading out the door, the more that I felt like the job didn't share my values).
And Jesus says to be prepared to have people run you out of town, or even take you before leaders to justify your actions. Or even try to put you to death. Golly, this sounds like a religion that is all about being "nice" to people.

Being Christian is not about following the popular spirit of the age. It's about standing up for what you believe in, and it might not be what your dad believes in, or the other Christian priest over there believes in. I'm a genderfluid person, so while I'm conservative like my dad, when it comes to stuff like LGBT, I think a bit different from my dad and most Christians. But I also think differently from most LGBT people who seem to blame the church.

Not peace but a sword. Not a literal sword. I'm not gonna hack any Mormons up. But swords have a way of slicing through crap, and making something that was neatly joined (like a large curtain in the Temple) torn apart.

1 Reply

@The Anointed,

You are correct about when the wise men visited Jesus.
My statement was that Mary was a virgin when Jesus was born. Apparently, Catholics don't worship Mary. I will take them at their word.
Abraham was nearly 100 years old before he was mature enough to believe God about Isaac. To me it is noteworthy that at the age of 14 Mary believed God. Even Zacharias had difficulty believing God.
I disagree with the Catholic Church that Mary was sinless. She needed her Savior like the rest of us. However, she was a woman devoted to God.

1 Reply

@bulmabriefs144,

bulmabriefs144 wrote:

Someone gets it.

There's a reason why there are different denominations.

It has nothing to do with "hate." It has to do with Jesus being about radical honesty. The entire non-Christian world taught "keep your nose down, follow the rules, be a people-pleaser." Judaism was revolutionary at the time of human sacrifice cults, where they decidedly refused to go along with this stuff. They were a small light in a dark world. But by the time the world had civilized and there was a Roman Empire, they weren't much different from polite society. Jesus comes along, and he says what's the point if everyone likes you but you lose your soul? Yeah, I've been there, working at a job, and my parents are so pleased. And my friends seem happy. And I'm miserable, because I'm not ever doing what I wanna do, I'm doing what the boss wants. I was perfectly happy with this one job, until I saw some cute little girl who kept getting $14 debt because her mom was out of town and she couldn't get books back easily, so I decided to waive some of it, and pay off the rest out of pocket. When her mom came the next day to pay it off, she found they had credit, and I was in trouble. The extra money was there, but from that point on, I was on probation, and my hours were cut ( I eventually got fired, but I was heading out the door, the more that I felt like the job didn't share my values).
And Jesus says to be prepared to have people run you out of town, or even take you before leaders to justify your actions. Or even try to put you to death. Golly, this sounds like a religion that is all about being "nice" to people.

Being Christian is not about following the popular spirit of the age. It's about standing up for what you believe in, and it might not be what your dad believes in, or the other Christian priest over there believes in. I'm a genderfluid person, so while I'm conservative like my dad, when it comes to stuff like LGBT, I think a bit different from my dad and most Christians. But I also think differently from most LGBT people who seem to blame the church.

Not peace but a sword. Not a literal sword. I'm not gonna hack any Mormons up. But swords have a way of slicing through crap, and making something that was neatly joined (like a large curtain in the Temple) torn apart.

Do continue to HATE the way you have been. It is a delight to watch. And it is a cherry on top to see you pretend it is not.

“But it was alright, everything was alright, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.”

G. Orwell, 1984

1 Reply

@NealNealNeal,

Quote:

My statement was that Mary was a virgin when Jesus was born. Apparently, Catholics don't worship Mary. I will take them at their word.

And it is your God given right to take them at their word, But I don't.

In the genealogy of Joseph ben Jacob, who married the already pregnant Mary, and who did not consummate that union until after she had given birth to her firstborn son [Jesus], which genealogy is recorded in Matthew, five righteous women are mentioned: Tamar, who played the prostitute and seduced Judah, her father-in law into having sex with her, by which union she conceived and later bore his twin sons, Perez and Zerah. Then there is Rahab the madam of a whore house in Jericho, who saved the Israelite spies and who later married Salmon, and bore his son ‘Boaz.’ The third is Ruth, who with sexual cunning deceived Boaz into marrying her, to whom she bore ‘Obed.’ The fourth is Bathsheba, who committed adultery with King David, who had her husband ‘Uriah’ killed, and she was the mother of Solomon, of whom the Lord said; “He shall be my son and I shall be his Father and it is he who shall build my temple for me.” [See 2nd Samuel 7: 14. and 1st Chronicles 17: 13.] Solomon was then blessed with the rulership of the most glorious period of Israel’s history. And last of all is Mary who united with her half-brother Joseph ben Alexander Helios, to conceive and bear Jesus, the promised Messiah.

Mary, the daughter of Alexander Helios=Heli, was a virgin right up until the day she mated with her half-brother Joseph the son of Alexander Helios=Heli, who was born of a different mother than Hanna, the mother of Mary.

Galatians 4: 29; At that time, the child born according to the flesh, [Ishmael], despised and persecuted him, [Isaac] who was born according to God’s promise and the workings of the Holy Spirit.

Isaac, who is the prototype of Jesus, was born of a brother/sister relationship and born of God’s promise according to the power/workings of the Holy Spirit, and Isaac was the biological son of Abraham and his half-sister Sarah, who were both sired by Terah: just as Jesus, who was born of God’s promise according to the power of the Holy Spirit, was the biological son of Joseph and his half-sister Mary, who were both sired by Alexander Helios.

Isaac, was offered up as a sacrifice by his father on the same mountain that Jesus, who had been chosen as the heir to our Fathers throne, was offered up. But both lived on, as God had prepared a replacement sacrifice for them.

The replacement for Isaac, was a sheep, the replacement for Jesus, was the one year old unblemished lamb of God, [Enoch] who, at the age of 365, the number of days in a calendar year, was taken to the throne of the Most High in the creation and anointed as his successor, to serve God before the body of Adam/mankind into all eternity.

Just as Isaac the promised seed of Abraham was born through the union of Abraham and his half-sister Sarah according to the workings of the Holy Spirit, so too, the man Jesus, the reality of God’s promise to Abraham, was born according to the workings of the Holy Spirit and born of the union of Mary and her half-brother Joseph, who were both sired by Heli=Alexander Helios

Genesis 20: 11-12; Abraham answered, “I thought that there would be no one here who has reverence for God and that they would kill me to get my wife. She really is my sister. She is the daughter of my father, but not of my mother, and I married her.

Luke 3:23; (KJV) And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli. The (AS WAS SUPPOSED) in brackets, was a later interpolation by those who would have you believe the false teaching of the so-called virgin birth.

In the different translations of the KJV into Arabic, Afrikaan, Zulu, etc and even some of the more modern English translations, such as the Good News Catholic Study Edition Bible, the words (As was supposed) have been retained, but the brackets are removed, thus by, making those words appear to be the declaration of Luke, while the serious biblical student know that they were not written by Luke, but were a later interpolation and a corruption of the Holy Scriptures, by those Christians, who refuse to accept that Jesus was not a God who became a man, but a man, born of human parents, who was later CHOSEN by the Lord our saviour ‘The Son of Man,’ as his heir and successor, and who was given divine glory, as revealed in Acts 3: 13; where it is said that the God of our ancestors, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, has given divine glory to his servant Jesus etc.

In Luke 3: 22; Those who would have you believe that Jesus was a god who became a man, rather than a man who was given divine glory by the God of Abraham, and is now incontestably divine, changed the original verse, to; “Thou art my beloved son in who I am well pleased.”

In Luke 3: 22; (In place of “Thou art my beloved son in who I am well pleased.”) The following authorities of the second, third, and fourth centuries read, “This day I have begotten thee,” vouched for by Codex D, and the most ancient copies of the old latin (a, b. c. ff.I), by Justin Martyr (AD 140), Clemens Alex, (AD. 190), Methodius (AD. 290), among the Greeks. And among the Latins, Lactaitius (AD 300), Hilary (AD) Juvencus (AD. 330), Faustus (AD. 400) and Augustine. All these oldest manuscripts were changed completely. They now read, “This is my son in whom I am well pleased.” Whereas the original variant was, “Thou art my Son. This day I have begotten thee.”

Has your God ever raised up from the dead, a human being who was born of the seed of Adam, or only his immortal and eternal son who is supposed to have been with his father when they created this entire boundless Cosmos?

If so, what faith can you put, in such a God who has never risen anyone who has inherited the death sentence of Adam and all his seed.

0 Replies

@Leadfoot,

Quote:

I come not to bring peace, but a sword.

There must indeed be divisions among you, in order that the one who is right will shine forth.

1 Reply

@The Anointed,

The Anointed wrote:

Quote:
I come not to bring peace, but a sword.

There must indeed be divisions among you, in order that the one who is right will shine forth.

My purpose is to glorify God and to enjoy Him forever.

1 Reply

@NealNealNeal,

Quote:

My purpose is to glorify God and to enjoy Him forever.

And who is the God you glorify?

1 Reply

Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know