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Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

 
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 29 Aug, 2021 06:00 am
@The Anointed,
Quote:
“But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them….” (2 Peter 2:1-3).


Which is more important?

That God was born in human flesh, lived and died on the cross? That God was incarnate, through Jesus? That God so loved the world that he gave his only son?

Or that Jesus was male, even if to do so, you invalidate the Gospel by introducing a human father? That you deny the concept of being born as God's child, instead focusing on some nonsense that baptism creates inheritance. Okay then, why aren't all of us able to walk on water after being baptised?
There's a very simple answer. Baptism ISN'T about inheritance. It's about our commitment to God. Jesus's ministry began with his baptism, but his powers were inborn as was his relationship with God. Joseph is told by an angel not to divorce Mary, and both Joseph and the Wise Men are informed of Herod's plans. The Wise Men are led by a star. Shepherds are told about this kid by angels. This is not a normal kid with normal parents, this is a special child from the onset.

Jesus was able to do miracles BEFORE being baptised, as he did with changing water into wine.

In fact, if the Infancy Gospels are to believed (I tend not to, as these are largely just stories without good theological framework), he did a number of miracles as a child. The problem with these were they weren't to heal or for the glory of God, but just a kid playing around. What do I mean? Well part of the reason the Infancy Gospels are never canon is because they have Jesus making literal clay sparrows, they have him cursing a kid to death who upsets him, they have him helping with carpentry by stretching the wood, and resurrecting a few people. None of these are particularly religious signs, and they don't follow Jesus's mission to heal and spread the good news. They do kinda get better as they go along though.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Infancy-Gospel-of-Thomas.html

The point being, I would sooner accept these writings than the idea of Jesus as a totally normal child (which flies in the face of literally the first few chapters of all the Gospels) until God says those words in baptism.

I have been in baptisms. What is emphasized is the parent's commitment and the person's commitment to do good and resist evil. Baptism is a sign of grace from Jesus. It is a sign of our own commitment, and it is a sign or new life with God. But nowhere in the ceremony does it mention anything about becoming a child of God. It's about instruction of the child and membership in the Church, the body of Christ. This baptism is fairly standard.
https://www.rca.org/liturgy/order-for-the-sacrament-of-baptism/
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sun 29 Aug, 2021 10:37 am
Imagine reading this kind of pap with a suicide bomber or a drone stalking.
https://scontent.fhou1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/104182535_3132807073406267_6523120646309511425_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=t17h5hHhvY4AX-IuV_i&_nc_ht=scontent.fhou1-2.fna&oh=eae232c696bb5a755962580ca0e62112&oe=61524F68
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Mon 30 Aug, 2021 08:23 am
@edgarblythe,
my god is the fastest draw on these boards.
The Anointed
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2021 04:54 am
@farmerman,
And the only thing your god draws is stick men.
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  0  
Reply Fri 3 Sep, 2021 01:31 pm
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:

I'm not sure if you're calling me or The Annointed that.

The answer to the question in quotes, this is not an Episcopalian teaching. But about 30% of the Episcopalians would by like "sure whatever, just as long as Jesus died on the cross and was born from Mary."

The source? We one of them was some weird website that I went to which basically pitched this idea. You also find this occasionally at biology theory websites that pitch this idea based on what we have described about the virgin birth.

http://jdstone.org/cr/files/genetics-proves-that-jesus-was-a-woman.html
https://quadriv.wordpress.com/2011/06/10/jesus-aphids-and-parthenogenesis/

The funny thing is they think that this genetics stuff somehow discredits the Bible. But aside from theuse of the word "He" this is not a big thing.

Generally, when I look at an idea, I do one of three things:
(1) Decide to reject it (Islam, Twelve Tribes, Catholicism, that Heli crap) because it doesn't fit with my woldview or offends me somehow. The more a person tries to coerce me, themore I distrust their words.
(2) Adapt it (Hinduism, no caste system; Shintoism and Buddhism, monotheism but some ideas from these religions like reincarnation or kami spirits)
(3) Blend it (what happened for the most part with Taoism, and with flat Earth/hidden history stuff, along with this)

You'll notice there no fourth option, convert to that religion. If someone tries to hard sell me on their beliefs, I typically shove it into #1. Especially if they call me stupid or have an attitude that only their bwliefs are right. My beliefs are right to me, and this is all that matters.

Basically, if something (1) doesn't undermine what I already believe, (2) is cool, and (3) doesn't get disproven by life, then I typically am fine blending it in. Usually this takes a decision on my part. People trying to trick, coerce, brainwash, or otherwise forcibly change my mind and I tell them get lost.


Thanks for this.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  0  
Reply Fri 3 Sep, 2021 01:36 pm
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:

Quote:


Which is more important?



The important, you, like most Christians, do not address and that is the morals of your genocidal god.

You hide behind the supernatural so as to not face the truth.

Moral Cowards, all Christians.

Regards
DL
NealNealNeal
 
  0  
Reply Sat 4 Sep, 2021 04:25 pm
@Greatest I am,
I used to wonder if the original Startrek program had episodes which criticized Christianity.
0 Replies
 
TruthMatters
 
  0  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2021 10:28 am
@Greatest I am,
No, it's just a matter of not thinking- while trying to come up with an excuse for church coprolite.
0 Replies
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  0  
Reply Thu 16 Sep, 2021 01:03 pm
@Greatest I am,
God is not genocidal.

Atheists, however, are.

We humans die, not at the command of God but because we have defied God.

Quote:
But the LORD God warned him, “You may freely eat the fruit of every tree in the garden except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If you eat its fruit, you are sure to die.”


This is not a punishment from God. God is not a genocidal maniac. But by disobeying God we cut ourselves off from immortality.

Quote:
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.


We die because we have Knowledge of Good and Evil. We have chosen to live in a world that is mortal, to have meaningful life rather than immortal existence. But we live because of God's grace.

Not only is atheism responsible for the majority of all wars, but its very purpose is to disbelieve in an afterlife. In other words, it condemns us to a pointless life where it is better to die, then it tells us there is nothing after death.

https://apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=12&article=5713

Quote:
American film director, writer, actor, and comedian, Woody Allen, understands the problem he and his fellow atheists struggle to face. He stated:

Quote:
This is my perspective and has always been my perspective on life. I have a very grim, pessimistic view of it. I always have since I was a little boy; it hasn’t gotten worse with age or anything. I do feel that it’s a grim, painful, nightmarish, meaningless experience and that the only way that you can be happy is if you tell yourself some lies and deceive yourself. But I am not the first person to say this or even the most articulate person. It was said by Nietzsche, it was said by Freud, it was said by Eugene O’Neill. One must have one’s delusions to live. If you look at life too honestly and clearly, life becomes unbearable because it’s a pretty grim enterprise, you will admit.


In another interview, he said:

Quote:
Then after a while, you start to realize, I’m taking the big picture here, that eventually you die and eventually the Sun burns out and the Earth is gone and eventually all stars and all the planets and the entire Universe goes, disappears and nothing is left at all. Nothing of Shakespeare’s or Beethoven. All gone. Michelangelo, all gone. And you think to yourself. It is a lot of noise and sound and fury. And where’s it going? It’s not going any place…. You know it just seems like a big, meaningless thing. You can’t actually live your life like that. Because if you do, you just sit there. Why do anything? Why get up in the morning and do anything?


It's funny that he mentioned delusion. Dawkins also titled his book the God Delusion. Yet...

Quote:
9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


What delusion is stronger than atheism? It is clear to any with eyes that God is in nature, the universe, and everything. Ignoring all of this constitutes a delusion.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Thu 16 Sep, 2021 01:58 pm
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:

God is not genocidal.

Atheists, however, are.

We humans die, not at the command of God but because we have defied God.

Quote:
But the LORD God warned him, “You may freely eat the fruit of every tree in the garden except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If you eat its fruit, you are sure to die.”


This is not a punishment from God. God is not a genocidal maniac. But by disobeying God we cut ourselves off from immortality.

Quote:
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.


We die because we have Knowledge of Good and Evil. We have chosen to live in a world that is mortal, to have meaningful life rather than immortal existence. But we live because of God's grace.

Not only is atheism responsible for the majority of all wars, but its very purpose is to disbelieve in an afterlife. In other words, it condemns us to a pointless life where it is better to die, then it tells us there is nothing after death.

https://apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=12&article=5713

Quote:
American film director, writer, actor, and comedian, Woody Allen, understands the problem he and his fellow atheists struggle to face. He stated:

Quote:
This is my perspective and has always been my perspective on life. I have a very grim, pessimistic view of it. I always have since I was a little boy; it hasn’t gotten worse with age or anything. I do feel that it’s a grim, painful, nightmarish, meaningless experience and that the only way that you can be happy is if you tell yourself some lies and deceive yourself. But I am not the first person to say this or even the most articulate person. It was said by Nietzsche, it was said by Freud, it was said by Eugene O’Neill. One must have one’s delusions to live. If you look at life too honestly and clearly, life becomes unbearable because it’s a pretty grim enterprise, you will admit.


In another interview, he said:

Quote:
Then after a while, you start to realize, I’m taking the big picture here, that eventually you die and eventually the Sun burns out and the Earth is gone and eventually all stars and all the planets and the entire Universe goes, disappears and nothing is left at all. Nothing of Shakespeare’s or Beethoven. All gone. Michelangelo, all gone. And you think to yourself. It is a lot of noise and sound and fury. And where’s it going? It’s not going any place…. You know it just seems like a big, meaningless thing. You can’t actually live your life like that. Because if you do, you just sit there. Why do anything? Why get up in the morning and do anything?


It's funny that he mentioned delusion. Dawkins also titled his book the God Delusion. Yet...

Quote:
9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


What delusion is stronger than atheism? It is clear to any with eyes that God is in nature, the universe, and everything. Ignoring all of this constitutes a delusion.



Most of your comments here are nonsense, Bulma, not well conceived nor well argued...especially that garbage about "we" disobeyed your god.

BUT...one comment especially caused me to wonder what world you are living in.



My first question is: Did it hurt when you pulled that comment out?

My second is: What world are you living in that causes you to even consider that to be a reasonable statement?

MY OPINION is that strong atheism (there are no gods) is as much a blind guess as your blind guess that there is a god.

There may be a god...but not the one you suppose exists. There may be many gods. There also may be no gods.

I do not know which it is...and I suspect you do not know either...just as I suspect those people who assert there are no gods do not know.

You may be correct that the strong atheists are wrong in their contention that there are no gods...

...but that DOES NOT MEAN you are correct about the nature of any god or gods that might exist.

Oh...my guess is that MANY, MANY more wars were fought because of the instigation of religions (religious differences)...than because of the instigation of atheism.

MANY MORE!
0 Replies
 
Jasper10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Sep, 2021 01:24 pm
@Greatest I am,
In answer to the original post question…the christian bible states that not only did God die for us….he had to die for us….The deeper question is….why?
NealNealNeal
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 18 Sep, 2021 05:57 pm
@Jasper10,
Because He loves us.
Jasper10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2021 12:40 am
@NealNealNeal,
Well that explains the “did” bit but it doesn’t fully explain the “had to” bit.
NealNealNeal
 
  0  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2021 12:52 pm
@Jasper10,
Jasper10 wrote:

Well that explains the “did” bit but it doesn’t fully explain the “had to” bit.quote]

Actually it does.
Only Jesus' amazing love for the Father, the Holy Spirit and for people would "force" Him to die for people's sins.
Jesus could have avoided being crucified up to the time He physically died. However, because of His awesome love He continued until "It is finished".
Jasper10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2021 01:41 pm
@NealNealNeal,
Well I would disagree…..your response doesn’t answer the question of why Jesus “had to” die? ….it merely answers the question why he “did” (choose) to die.

“Choosing” to die and “Having” to die are different.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2021 02:02 pm
@NealNealNeal,
NealNealNeal wrote:
Jasper10 wrote:

Well that explains the “did” bit but it doesn’t fully explain the “had to” bit.quote]

Actually it does.
Only Jesus' amazing love for the Father, the Holy Spirit and for people would "force" Him to die for people's sins.
Jesus could have avoided being crucified up to the time He physically died. However, because of His awesome love He continued until "It is finished".


Why would any "god" require that someone, anyone, die for having sinned???

A sin, supposedly, is something a human does that offends a god. What kind of god is such a small creature it would require people to die to atone for having offended it?

The entire idea is an absurdity.
0 Replies
 
Jasper10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2021 02:24 pm
@NealNealNeal,
Let me explain a bit more where I am coming from….….. 2 Corinthians 5:21 says what it says whether we choose to believe what it says or not.

So why did the Christian God….”….made him who had no sin, to be sin for us.”

What was the reason for this?
hester831
 
  0  
Reply Thu 23 Sep, 2021 12:13 pm
@Jasper10,
Why you are replying to an 8 year old thread and why it is still active is because these are timeless questions. Is it eight years ago remote enough? How about forty years ago if someone was murdered so you could live, is that remote enough for you? How about 2000 years ago if someone was murdered so you could live, is that remote enough?

What if you didn't cooperate in it? 'It's not my fault God had to die!' you say. 'I had nothing to do with abortion! I take all kinds of medicines. It's standard practice in the pharmaceutical industry to murder babies!'

Newsflash, all humanity shares in the ORIGINAL SIN which DEMANDS justice. As a creature humans weren't created to die, but in their fallen state now HAVE TO DIE. Jesus without the Original Sin because his mother Mary was conceived without the Original Sin was the ONLY ACCEPTABLE ATONEMENT sacrifice. Lookup something called the scapegoat which nomadic herders would send into the desert to die. Well, Jesus came back from the desert after 40 days WITHOUT HAVING SINNED because he was the unblemished lamb.

God doesn't intend humans to be dead forever. All will rise again and be judged to live FOREVER in either heaven or hell - that means no end, very much alive in body and soul, in a glorified body. We KNOW God loves us because he has revealed it to us. Jesus didn't HAVE TO die he chose to die because all humans deserve death and WILL HAVE TO DIE for our sins. Now there is no more condemnation through the law because of Jesus he has become the God of the living and the dead.

What could you possibly exchange for your life? Can you by worrying add single moment to your lifespan? Or what profit will you gain if you possess the world but lose your soul? Only a PERFECT sacrifice is sufficient for your sins and mine and the sins of the whole world. Just one drop of blood of Jesus would have been sufficient but he HELD NOTHING BACK and gave his whole body, blood, soul and divinity for mankind. The reason is because God is love - GOD IS LOVE. He loves you and wants you to be with him forever, but he won't force you. That's why heaven and hell exist. Nothing unclean can possibly enter heaven or it would be destroyed!





Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Sep, 2021 12:24 pm
@hester831,
hester831 wrote:


Why you are replying to an 8 year old thread and why it is still active is because these are timeless questions. Is it eight years ago remote enough? How about forty years ago if someone was murdered so you could live, is that remote enough for you? How about 2000 years ago if someone was murdered so you could live, is that remote enough?

What if you didn't cooperate in it? 'It's not my fault God had to die!' you say. 'I had nothing to do with abortion! I take all kinds of medicines. It's standard practice in the pharmaceutical industry to murder babies!'

Newsflash, all humanity shares in the ORIGINAL SIN which DEMANDS justice. As a creature humans weren't created to die, but in their fallen state now HAVE TO DIE. Jesus without the Original Sin because his mother Mary was conceived without the Original Sin was the ONLY ACCEPTABLE ATONEMENT sacrifice. Lookup something called the scapegoat which nomadic herders would send into the desert to die. Well, Jesus came back from the desert after 40 days WITHOUT HAVING SINNED because he was the unblemished lamb.

God doesn't intend humans to be dead forever. All will rise again and be judged to live FOREVER in either heaven or hell - that means no end, very much alive in body and soul, in a glorified body. We KNOW God loves us because he has revealed it to us. Jesus didn't HAVE TO die he chose to die because all humans deserve death and WILL HAVE TO DIE for our sins. Now there is no more condemnation through the law because of Jesus he has become the God of the living and the dead.

What could you possibly exchange for your life? Can you by worrying add single moment to your lifespan? Or what profit will you gain if you possess the world but lose your soul? Only a PERFECT sacrifice is sufficient for your sins and mine and the sins of the whole world. Just one drop of blood of Jesus would have been sufficient but he HELD NOTHING BACK and gave his whole body, blood, soul and divinity for mankind. The reason is because God is love - GOD IS LOVE. He loves you and wants you to be with him forever, but he won't force you. That's why heaven and hell exist. Nothing unclean can possibly enter heaven or it would be destroyed!








The sickness that see the god of the Bible as a god of love...is beyond comprehension.

To think that a god that made the entire of the universe...wants people to kill others in order to atone for having been insulted is so infantile, it defies imagination.

The entire of the god myth of the Bible is unbearable.

Get over yourselves.
0 Replies
 
NealNealNeal
 
  0  
Reply Thu 23 Sep, 2021 12:53 pm
@Jasper10,
Jasper10 wrote:

Let me explain a bit more where I am coming from….….. 2 Corinthians 5:21 says what it says whether we choose to believe what it says or not.

So why did the Christian God….”….made him who had no sin, to be sin for us.”

What was the reason for this?


One of the wonderful things about Biblical Christianity is that it is supported by another religion. Biblical Judaism supports Christianity.
In the Old Testament lambs were killed to "atone" for the sins of each individual. In other words, the lamb bore the sin of the person.
John the baptist said "Behold the lamb of God Who takes away the sins of the world" when he saw Jesus.
At His death Jesus exchanged our sins for His righteousness. He was punished for our sins. In return we received His righteousness. In the eyes of the Father, we are now righteous. One word for this is "justification".
I hope that this helps.
 

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