How is this definition of "belief"?

@Frank Apisa,

You wrote,

Quote:

ci...what IS...IS. It is immutable.

But what IS today can and does change in the future. Evolution continues to process just because that's what nature does. We humans have a common ancestor, but human progress in our ability to record history, communicate, and create things are based on our subjective minds. Thomas Edison created the light bulb, and contemporary scientists can now send vehicles to Mars. They are all based on an individual's ability at subjective thinking. We are the product of our environment. When we decide to jump into our car to go shopping or decide to go on vacation, those are all subjective choices we have.

Nobody can predict what another person will do; whether it's tomorrow, next week, next month, or next year - or even the rest of their life. Those are all subjective choices of the individual.

After the fact, it IS what it IS.

1 Reply

There is nothing changing nor in the past nor in the future, that whatever it is at this point in time, is exactly what it is at this point in time...I cannot go to change tomorrow what I did today, as similarly, in the past, whatever I chose to do will lead to my present condition, as the present follows from the past...thus the argument of change is irrelevant to the assertion that whatever in each point in time it is, then it is !
That is of course objective !

2 Replies

@Fil Albuquerque,

You wrote,

Quote:

There is nothing changing nor in the past nor in the future,

It's very funny that you believe this! Even when you post on a2k with different ideas and assumptions about what reality is. If not subjective thoughts and ideas, you're missing the whole concept of subjective.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

No I am not, you are, it was explained time and again that no one is question subjectivity is real only that the real is not subjective as a whole which is different...can I change what you are doing right now with my thought alone ? You see I suppose you are a real being and not just a figment of my imagination..whatever you are doing right now is independent of what I think or want you to be doing ! If you are real and reality was subjective then I would be able to change what you are doing out of my own subjective thinking about you...BUT THE FACT IS I CAN'T CHANGE WHAT YOU ARE DOING ! Do you get it ? I bet you don't ! Either you assume solipsism and to make the claim, you have the problem of infinite regression, and end up dropping, or you drop anyway on the premiss of this example alone...either way you drop the claim !!!

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

You wrote,

Quote:

only that the real is not subjective as a whole which is different..

.

I'm not misinterpreting anything; you are! The action anybody takes is real and subjective. There is nothing else, but you try to imply there is. It doesn't matter what anybody else thinks about any individual's reality; it IS what it IS as a whole. If I decide to go to the grocery store, that is a subjective choice, and it is real to me - in whole and its parts. Whether you wish to see that as "real" is your problem. Nobody else cares.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

If it is subjective then it means that specific action you are doing is depending to vary as long any other subjective agent observes it...it is not the case when I look at you or think at you I make you go to the ballet if you want to go to the grocery...in resume if you are going to the grocery even if I perceive you are going to the ballet because I am deluded you still objectively are going to the grocery independently of what my own delusional subjective perception of you thinks...complaining that your wish to go to the grocery, it is a subjective wish, that can vary from person to person, ads nothing to the fact you are going to the grocery no matter what I think subjectively of you...I already explain that that subjectivity is real does not mean the real is subjective.

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

You are now getting foolish! You can try to influence my actions, but you can't control me - unless you are a tyrant who exacts torture and punishment.

I am subjective for my own actions - not anyone elses. What you do, plan to do, or change your mind on what to do is your choice - not anyone else.

You are a subjective being that makes decision based on your own perceptions about what you wish to do. Your twist of words such as

Quote:

that subjectivity is real does not mean the real is subjective.

has no meaning for anybody else except you!

It has no basis in logic.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

I wrote:

Quote:

that subjectivity is real does not mean the real is subjective.

It has no meaning ??? LMAO

How about with the same constructing logic:

That a dog is real doesn't means that the real is a dog...

...do you compute now ? No ? oh well... Laughing

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

You wrote,

Quote:

That a dog is real doesn't means that the real is a dog...

.

Sentence construction is all wrong. It makes no sense. Nobody speaks such gibberish who understands English grammar.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

No kidding Sherlock ! Keep it up I am almost without air of reading you...you put up a good show pal ! Mr. Green

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

That's not a show; it's called debate.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

What ? You have nothing more substantial to say then that instead of:

That a dog is real does not mean that the real is a dog...

...should probably sound better if:

That a dog is real does not mean that reality is a dog...

Is that it ?
Because although sounding odd both are perfectly interchangeable and technically correct Cic...do you think this is a debate ? I think this is a comedy if it was a debate I would have left 20 pages ago... Laughing

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

No, it still doesn't make any sense. The sentence contradicts itself.

How's this? You can't teach old dogs new tricks.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Read about straw man arguments then, later Cic...

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

You don't even understand what straw man is! LOL

Prove the straw man statement from "any" of my posts?
I have over 80,000 posts; you can surely find one.

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

You wrote,
Quote:
ci...what IS...IS. It is immutable.
But what IS today can and does change in the future. Evolution continues to process just because that's what nature does. We humans have a common ancestor, but human progress in our ability to record history, communicate, and create things are based on our subjective minds. Thomas Edison created the light bulb, and contemporary scientists can now send vehicles to Mars. They are all based on an individual's ability at subjective thinking. We are the product of our environment. When we decide to jump into our car to go shopping or decide to go on vacation, those are all subjective choices we have.

Nobody can predict what another person will do; whether it's tomorrow, next week, next month, or next year - or even the rest of their life. Those are all subjective choices of the individual.

After the fact, it IS what it IS.

Whatever the REALITY IS...ci...it IS. If it changes...then THAT is the REALITY. And that cann0t be changed. Whatever it is...even if changing as we speak...THEN THAT IS WHAT IT IS.

Try to get it.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

To arrive at the what is is happened because of the individual's subjective decisions. There's no changing the definition.

Call it whatever you want; I'll call it the way I "see it."

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

To arrive at the what is is happened because of the individual's subjective decisions. There's no changing the definition.

Call it whatever you want; I'll call it the way I "see it."

Fine with me. But if you try to sell it here, I'll call it what I see it.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Of coarse; we all know where you stand on this topic. It's already a "dead" issue for most of us. Not necessary to parrot the same thing a thousand times. We killed it! LOL

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

You claim nothing is changing, but you ignore what you yourself do from minute to minute, hour to hour, day to day, etc., etc., etc.

By definition, you are making subjective choices in how you wish to spend the time. It's not about after the fact; what you decide to do and act on it are your subjective choice.

No one needs to tell us that what already happened cannot be changed. That's a foolish assumption that belongs on the laugher curve.

BTW, have you found any straw man post from any of my over 80,000 posts on a2k?

1 Reply

How is this definition of "belief"?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know