How is this definition of "belief"?

@Frank Apisa,

...oh damn just drop it Frank you have to admit your choice of words is very peculiar, at least admit that...by the same token the inverse could be asked to you...how ambiguous it is to call assumptions blind guesses ?...we all normally have reasons to think what we think, and believe what we believe, is not like we throwing dices is it ?...I can agree that guessing is guessing, but as Setanta put it, for those who guess believe rarely it is the case that they think of themselves as being guessing...for all they care they know !
Can you tell me with an honest face that you don't believe you are alive ?
If you were forced to use the word in a reply to this question would you say no ? Common have some respect for this poor human being talking straight with you be a gentleman and provide an honest answer...now repeat after me, it spells:

I Frank do believe I am alive ! (You better believe it) Wink

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

...oh damn just drop it Frank you have to admit your choice of words is very peculiar, at least admit that...by the same token the inverse could be asked to you...how ambiguous it is to call assumptions blind guesses ?...we all normally have reasons to think what we think, and believe what we believe, is not like we throwing dices is it ?...I can agree that guessing is guessing, but as Setanta put it, for those who guess believe rarely it is the case that they think of themselves as being guessing...for all they care they know !
Can you tell me with an honest face that you don't believe you are alive ?
If you were forced to use the word in a reply to this question would you say no ? Common have some respect for this poor human being talking straight with you be a gentleman and provide an honest answer...now repeat after me, it spells:

I Frank do believe I am alive ! (You better believe it)

Fil...insofar as I can be alive and I can KNOW I am alive...I KNOW I am alive.

I do no believing.

Sorry so many are unable to see that you are stuck in the use of the word for no purpose other than to disguise the fact that, in many instances, you guess.

Take it...leave it...whatever.

I DO NOT "BELIEVE" I AM ALIVE. I am willing to say I know I am alive...although I am also willing to accept that I may be part of an illusion. Either way...I am not doing what you seem intent on designating "believing."

What do you mean when you say, "I do believe I am alive!" What do you mean with those words?

1 Reply

@FBM,

The sentence naively intends to report what is true, what is the case, what is happening...I already conceded the "to" may be dropped long ago...the fact that in my own language "report" can be used with both directions is irrelevant to any human being with more then 2 neurons at work when it comes to getting the point I was making there...in fact my previous post has clearly demonstrated the bunch of assumptions that your sentence is making right on top of talking about believing and against assumptions...its not only ironic but funny as hell !
There is nothing you can say or write over the next 200 pages which is in any way able to change what I just exposed naked in my previous post...now please for the last time (I wont reply any longer) go away, leave me alone, you are a kiddo, go troll someone else, I have no interest in pursuing a conversation with the likes of you...

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

I do mean exactly that...with my heart and soul I do believe I am alive but cannot prove I am not a figment of somebody else's imagination...well you claim you know, but how can you tell or justify that other then through yourself ? Its not like you intend an I am alive because I am alive is it ?

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

You're right in one respect: nothing in the next 200 pages is going to change the ignorance that you demonstrated in your response. Laughing

You can insult, but are too weak to withstand insults, I guess. Wink

Where's the OBJECT that you claimed existed in that sentence, ****-dick?

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

I do mean exactly that...with my heart and soul I do believe I am alive but cannot prove I am not a figment of somebody else's imagination...well you claim you know, but how can you tell or justify that other then through yourself ? Its not like you intend an I am alive because I am alive is it ?

With all respect, Fil...please check what I actually wrote.

1 Reply

@FBM,

The object of ANY sentence is to report a matter of fact about something monkey, it needs not be your sentence in particular...the distinction to be made is that normally right after someone suggesting we shouldn't assume much about reality people don't go on saying lets see what happens...is ******* moronic !
Everybody even the stupidest member on A2K has gotten the point by know I'm sure !

(...go figure what a sentence without an object might intend to mean... Rolling Eyes

)

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

I did read it Frank...you say 2 different things in there... first you say you know and then you say that you might be wrong...

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Now you're being deliberately ambiguous. You're changing your use of the word "object." Pathetic.

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

I did read it Frank...you say 2 different things in there... first you say you know and then you say that you might be wrong...

You need to read it again.

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@FBM,

LMAO !!!

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@Frank Apisa,

If you really want to deal with what I actually wrote and said, that is.

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@Frank Apisa,

Well OK you are willing to say either that you know or that you might be wrong you CAN'T honestly do both...pick and choose I asked you for an answer and not for an "I'm willing to" you old fox ! Wink

ahahahah !

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Well OK you are willing to say either that you know or that you might be wrong you CAN'T honestly do both...pick and choose I asked you for an answer and not for an "I'm willing to" you old fox ! ahahahah !

If you are saying "It cannot be known"...I am willing to go with that. But, if it truly cannot be known...I am not willing to make a guess that I am alive...and then to call that guess a "belief."

On one level, it can be said that we can KNOW that we are alive. "Cogito, ergo sum." If that is accepted, then I KNOW I am alive. (The accepting is accepting, not believing.)

EITHER way...I am not doing believing. I am making assumptions (I can make them in either direction)...and I am extrapolating from those assumptions.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Well OK you are willing to say either that you know or that you might be wrong you CAN'T honestly do both...pick and choose I asked you for an answer and not for an "I'm willing to" you old fox ! ahahahah !

If you are saying "It cannot be known"...I am willing to go with that. But, if it truly cannot be known...I am not willing to make a guess that I am alive...and then to call that guess a "belief."

On one level, it can be said that we can KNOW that we are alive. "Cogito, ergo sum." If that is accepted, then I KNOW I am alive. (The accepting is accepting, not believing.)

EITHER way...I am not doing believing. I am making assumptions (I can make them in either direction)...and I am extrapolating from those assumptions.

No no no my dear friend..I surely don't know if it can be known...I am claiming nothing as matter of knowledge...I said by the rule of the excluded middle, if you are sane and honestly willing to answer that, either, you claim to KNOW you are alive, or that you might be wrong in assuming you are alive...note that assuming heart and soul you are alive is believing you are alive or can you on your honour say it is not ?
(...I am pressing you not attacking you Frank Wink

...)

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Well OK you are willing to say either that you know or that you might be wrong you CAN'T honestly do both...pick and choose I asked you for an answer and not for an "I'm willing to" you old fox ! ahahahah !

If you are saying "It cannot be known"...I am willing to go with that. But, if it truly cannot be known...I am not willing to make a guess that I am alive...and then to call that guess a "belief."

On one level, it can be said that we can KNOW that we are alive. "Cogito, ergo sum." If that is accepted, then I KNOW I am alive. (The accepting is accepting, not believing.)

EITHER way...I am not doing believing. I am making assumptions (I can make them in either direction)...and I am extrapolating from those assumptions.

No no no my dear friend..I surely don't know if it can be known...I am claiming nothing as matter of knowledge...I said by the rule of the excluded middle, if you are sane and honestly willing to answer that, either, you claim to KNOW you are alive, or that you might be wrong in assuming you are alive...note that assuming heart and soul you are alive is believing you are alive or can you on your honour say it is not ?
(...I am pressing you not attacking you Frank ...)

I stand by the answer I gave earlier...and I think it explains itself nicely. If it can be known (I do not know if it can or not and I am not willing to make a guess)...but IF it can be known (in the sense of Cogito, ergo sum), then I know I am alive. If it cannot truly be known...then I refuse to guess...and even if I were to guess, I would refuse to disguise the fact that I am making a guess by referring to it as a "belief."

I could guess. Do you want me to do that?

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

What precisely do you have against calling a blind guess a blind guess...rather than a "belief"...and how in the world can you consider calling a blind guess a "belief" as intellectually or ethically superior in any way to calling it a blind guess?

It's neither superior nor inferior, it's just less precise and colloquial. It's also a useless distraction. If you think beliefs tend to be given too much importance and respect in the US, go make a PAC for Atheism promotion or religious demotion or whatever. Walk naked in front of churches, mosques and synagoges. Write songs deriding faith and sing them in Central Park. Start an Atheist newspaper. Deal with the problem, deal with the REALITY of it, not with the WORD "belief". It's too easy a target. IMO one should respect language as a common good, as a medium, and use words as a tool to try and communicate (and thus change reality), not as a fetish of reality.

What you were saying a few days back about religious wars being a shame especially since they are based on so little, it made me think of a French song against theism, very deaftly done, Et si y a personne? by Souchon. The text evokes so many murders and wars and fears and stuff, and asks: what if, on top of this, there's no one up there? What if the skies were empty?

That made it up the charts big time... It's also a theme of Imagine.

Write a song about, if it's not done already. Smile

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@Frank Apisa,

If you do want me to guess...I will leave the guess up to Mr. Coin.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Well OK you are willing to say either that you know or that you might be wrong you CAN'T honestly do both...pick and choose I asked you for an answer and not for an "I'm willing to" you old fox ! ahahahah !

If you are saying "It cannot be known"...I am willing to go with that. But, if it truly cannot be known...I am not willing to make a guess that I am alive...and then to call that guess a "belief."

On one level, it can be said that we can KNOW that we are alive. "Cogito, ergo sum." If that is accepted, then I KNOW I am alive. (The accepting is accepting, not believing.)

EITHER way...I am not doing believing. I am making assumptions (I can make them in either direction)...and I am extrapolating from those assumptions.

No no no my dear friend..I surely don't know if it can be known...I am claiming nothing as matter of knowledge...I said by the rule of the excluded middle, if you are sane and honestly willing to answer that, either, you claim to KNOW you are alive, or that you might be wrong in assuming you are alive...note that assuming heart and soul you are alive is believing you are alive or can you on your honour say it is not ?
(...I am pressing you not attacking you Frank ...)

I stand by the answer I gave earlier...and I think it explains itself nicely. If it can be known (I do not know if it can or not and I am not willing to make a guess)...but IF it can be known (in the sense of Cogito, ergo sum), then I know I am alive. If it cannot truly be known...then I refuse to guess...and even if I were to guess, I would refuse to disguise the fact that I am making a guess by referring to it as a "belief."

I could guess. Do you want me to do that?

Excuse me sir but is the other way around...if you KNOW you are alive then is because knowing you are alive can be known... Wink

(...otherwise you bel.. err, assume you know but you are not certain...)

( I am younger but awaken Frank ...)

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

Quote:

@FBM,
normally right after someone suggesting we shouldn't assume much about reality, people don't go on saying lets see what happens...is ******* moronic !
Everybody even the stupidest member on A2K has gotten the point by know I'm sure !

0 Replies

How is this definition of "belief"?

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