12
   

State pushes to keep Trayvon Martin's past out of George Zimmerman trial

 
 
firefly
 
  1  
Tue 18 Jun, 2013 11:57 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
I dont think that the state met its burden for criminal prosecution here...

That's a matter that can only be judged after the trial--and there was definitely enough evidence to bring this matter to trial. After the trial, you will know if the jury felt the state met it's burden of providing evidence sufficient to convict, beyond a reasonable doubt.

You seem ignorant of the tons of evidence the state released in this case, which support the reasons for going to trial. That makes your opinion on the matter rather meaningless, and easily dismissed. If you want to be taken seriously, you need to be better informed.
DrewDad
 
  2  
Tue 18 Jun, 2013 12:01 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
Martin's death was his own fault? Since when should "not answering questions respectfully" create the conditions for one's death?

[sarcasm]

Sheesh. You don't get it, yet?

Zimmerman was a free man, and not obligated to follow the instructions of the 911 operator, but Martin is obligated to be respectful of Zimmerman on pain of death.

Don't you see?

[/sarcasm]
JTT
 
  1  
Tue 18 Jun, 2013 12:13 pm
@DrewDad,
You're a regular stand up comic, Dd.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Tue 18 Jun, 2013 12:21 pm
@firefly,
me not making the same conclusion as you does not make me uninformed, me not knowing the relavant news would make me uniformed, which you have not shown to be the case.

come on firefly, have some respect.....maybe you get away with floating the bullshit other places but I am on to your games
Thomas
 
  1  
Tue 18 Jun, 2013 12:54 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
Well Martin was also where he had a right to be, and doing what he had a right to do, and then Zimmerman entered the picture...and Zimmerman may not have just wanted "to talk to him"--he didn't want "this one" to get away before the police showed up.
[...]
I think that will be closer to how the state sees what happened.

Sure thing, but will that be good enough? Florida has to prove Zimmerman's guilt beyond all reasonable doubt, whereas Zimmerman's defender only has to raise some reasonable doubt. If the jury ends up concluding that both were in a place where they had a right to be, and that Zimmerman overreacted to something Martin did that Martin was probably justified in doing, Zimmerman walks. The "probably" leaves room for reasonable doubt.
parados
 
  2  
Tue 18 Jun, 2013 01:05 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
right, I am not not in favor of the state dragging citizens in front of a court simply because the mob demands it, there must be a basis in law and evidence for the charge.

hmmmm..... well let's see.
We have a dead person. We have another person that shot the dead person causing his death. That seems like some evidence there. I would hardly say that is the "mob demanding it". It sounds like a rather serious event has taken place.

Now.. if there was no basis for the charges the defense could ask for the case to be dismissed which hasn't happened. I would guess the defense will ask for dismissal before the case goes to the jury but will you agree there is a basis if the court allows it to go to the jury? I doubt it. You seem to have made up your mind and damn the evidence.
JTT
 
  1  
Tue 18 Jun, 2013 01:26 pm
@parados,
Quote:
We have another person that shot the dead person causing his death.


Now that's a trick.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Tue 18 Jun, 2013 01:29 pm
@parados,
Doesn't seem fair - that judgment seems to bend toward Trayvon. What if he had a propensity to fight?
firefly
 
  1  
Tue 18 Jun, 2013 01:31 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
me not making the same conclusion as you does not make me uninformed, me not knowing the relavant news would make me uniformed

I agree. And it is your lack of relevant information--regarding the evidence in this case--that's leading you to conclude that the state did not meet their "burden" of having sufficient evidence to bring this case to trial. They have tons of evidence, and its been publicly released, and you show no awareness of having knowledge of any of it. That does make you look suspiciously uninformed.

Do you even know that a Sanford, Florida police report, written on March 13, weeks before Zimmerman was charged with second degree murder, stated that:

Quote:
"The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement, or conversely, if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog in an effort to dispel each party's concern."

"There is no indication that Trayvon Martin was involved in any criminal activity at the time of the encounter."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/trayvon-martin-death-ultimately-avoidable-florida-police-report-article-1.1080493#ixzz2Wb1v9G5f


Do you know that on the night of the shooting, the police report classified the death of Martin as:
Quote:

homicide--negligent manslaughter--unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act.
http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf

And, before classifying the death as manslaughter, the chief police investigator had considered it second degree murder.
And a recommendation to criminally charge Zimmerman was sent to the D.A. by the chief police investigator right after the shooting.

This case is in a courtroom, not because of mobs, or media attention, but because that's where it should have been all along--based on the evidence and the initial police finding. The D.A. chose to ignore the recommendation of the police investigator immediately after the shooting. The public outcry, and the media attention, was to force the state to do what it should have done in the first place--and that was to charge Zimmerman, and have the case adjudicated in a courtroom.

Baldimo
 
  0  
Tue 18 Jun, 2013 01:37 pm
@parados,
We are past the point of it being called off. The media and the race pimps got this brought to court. It has been nothing but a mob rule since it was brought to the media's attention. Did you forget the doctoring of tapes to make Zimmerman look like a racist? Altering 911 tapes to make him say something he never said or apply a motive he never applied. This whole trial is a farce and you know it.
firefly
 
  1  
Tue 18 Jun, 2013 01:39 pm
@Thomas,
We'll just have to wait and see how this plays out at trial.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Tue 18 Jun, 2013 01:46 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

We'll just have to wait and see how this plays out at trial.

and there is every likelihood that this will end up as yet another American embarrassment. people around the world used to look up to us, aspire to be like us, but increasingly they do not. our actions tend to not match up with our lectures to the rest of the world.
JTT
 
  2  
Tue 18 Jun, 2013 01:49 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
Doesn't seem fair - that judgment seems to bend toward Trayvon. What if he had a propensity to fight?


Seems to fit these "no need to back down" laws perfectly, doncha think, Lash?
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -1  
Tue 18 Jun, 2013 01:56 pm
@Baldimo,
Quote:
We are past the point of it being called off. The media and the race pimps got this brought to court. It has been nothing but a mob rule since it was brought to the media's attention.


Glad to see I'm not the only person here who grasps this one.....

Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are a couple of hucksters and con men and anybody who buys into their **** is an idiot.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Tue 18 Jun, 2013 01:59 pm
@firefly,
I am well aware that the DA heard an arguement to charge Zimmerman but decided against it. this comforts me that he heard arguments for and against before making up his mind. what does not comfort me is that once the process worked the gov decided to subvert the process, and he did not even bother to attemp to come off looking like he cared about justice when he tasked a well known overly emotional victim advocate to "decide" if the process should be nullified. he put a person in who from the very beginning was going to give the mob and the gov what they wanted, which was the abuse of George Zimmerman by the state of Florida. this being the same state which for decades has functioned as a sanctuary for criminals because of its barely functioning justice system.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Tue 18 Jun, 2013 02:55 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

Doesn't seem fair - that judgment seems to bend toward Trayvon. What if he had a propensity to fight?

The defense would have to prove the relevance. It would be similar to trying to bring in a rape victim's sexual past.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Tue 18 Jun, 2013 03:00 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

Lash wrote:

Doesn't seem fair - that judgment seems to bend toward Trayvon. What if he had a propensity to fight?

The defense would have to prove the relevance. It would be similar to trying to bring in a rape victim's sexual past.

not being able to bring to trial the alleged victims previous history of failure to practice general good sense and good sexual consent practices has always been a form of Injustice...it is the state stepping on the scales of justice in favor of alleged victims because the state wants more convictions in spite of where justice would come down in individual cases
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Tue 18 Jun, 2013 03:11 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

We are past the point of it being called off. The media and the race pimps got this brought to court. It has been nothing but a mob rule since it was brought to the media's attention.

Yeah.. because Martin didn't really die and Zimmerman didn't really pull the trigger. The media may have brought it to our attention but the law still controlled the process. The evidence still has to be there to charge Zimmerman. Now we will find out if the evidence is enough to convince a jury.



Quote:
Did you forget the doctoring of tapes to make Zimmerman look like a racist? Altering 911 tapes to make him say something he never said or apply a motive he never applied. This whole trial is a farce and you know it.
NBC was guilty of editing tapes for time like they do for all stories on TV. Because some idiots thought it showed Zimmerman was racist doesn't mean that was NBC's intent. I guess we will find that out in court to unless the court decides to toss Zimmerman's lawsuit. But in that case you will claim the courts were railroaded by public opinion again I'll bet.


If the trial was a "farce" the courts will toss it and sanction the prosecution. I'll bet that won't happen.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  3  
Tue 18 Jun, 2013 03:15 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
What if he had a propensity to fight?


Its like saying because a woman has sexual relations with a variety of partners then that proves she had consented to sex rather than rape. Even if Trayvon has a propensity of fighting, it don't mean he fought the night Zimmerman killed him.

(or what parados said. didn't see it)
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Tue 18 Jun, 2013 03:21 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
people around the world used to look up to us, aspire to be like us,


You really can't underestimate the power of a good propaganda campaign, especially one that ya can keep up for generations.

And all that time, Hawk, all it was was a gargantuan lie.

Did you know that there were lots of Americans who looked up to the Nazis, who aspired to be like them?

Quote:
How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power

Rumours of a link between the US first family and the Nazi war machine have circulated for decades. Now the Guardian can reveal how repercussions of events that culminated in action under the Trading with the Enemy Act are still being felt by today's president

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar
0 Replies
 
 

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