6
   

Is a comma needed after 'poles'?

 
 
Reply Mon 29 Apr, 2013 11:38 am
I stood clinging to one of the metal poles, which helped me balance.

Is a comma needed after 'poles'?

Thanks.
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Type: Question • Score: 6 • Views: 916 • Replies: 18
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dalehileman
 
  0  
Reply Mon 29 Apr, 2013 11:56 am
@tanguatlay,
Yes Tang. Without the comma there must be a number of poles, all of which help you balance
tanguatlay
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Apr, 2013 12:04 pm
@dalehileman,
dalehileman wrote:

Yes Tang. Without the comma there must be a number of poles, all of which help you balance
Thanks, dalehileman.
Is it not possible that there are several poles which help me balance, and the one I was clinging to was one of them?
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Apr, 2013 12:11 pm
@tanguatlay,
Without comma, yes
tanguatlay
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Apr, 2013 12:15 pm
@dalehileman,
Thanks, dalehileman.
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Apr, 2013 12:35 pm
@tanguatlay,
tanguatlay wrote:

Is it not possible that there are several poles which help me balance, and the one I was clinging to was one of them?


How would the others help you balance?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Apr, 2013 02:08 pm
@tanguatlay,
bookmark
tanguatlay
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Apr, 2013 10:59 pm
@JTT,
Hello, JTT.

Which is the correct sentence to you? Thanks.
0 Replies
 
tanguatlay
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Apr, 2013 01:10 am
@contrex,
contrex wrote:

tanguatlay wrote:

Is it not possible that there are several poles which help me balance, and the one I was clinging to was one of them?


How would the others help you balance?


Thanks, Contrex.

I meant that there were several poles which could help me balance, and the one I was clinging to was one of them.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 May, 2013 12:29 am
@tanguatlay,
Quote:
I stood clinging to one of the metal poles, which helped me balance.


1A: I stood clinging to one of the metal poles which helped me balance.

I'd say, not with complete assurance mind you, that ..., ..., ...

More thought required on this one.

Quote:
Yes Tang. Without the comma there must be a number of poles, all of which help you balance


With or without a comma, Dale, we know that there is more than one pole. I've taken out the comma in 1A and it doesn't shift the meaning to more than one pole helping 'me' balance.

JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 May, 2013 12:30 am
Quote:
Republican Idiot


How in the hell did this thread ever attract this tag? Jesus Murphy!!!!
cherrie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 May, 2013 12:40 am
@JTT,
I t seems to be appearing on quite a few posts, even crossword questions.
0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 May, 2013 10:51 am
@JTT,
Quote:
With or without a comma, Dale, we know that there is more than one pole.
Okay, but…..

1A: I stood clinging to one of the metal poles (,) which helped me balance

Quote:
I've taken out the comma in 1A and it doesn't shift the meaning to more than one pole helping 'me' balance.


I disagree JTT. Obviously at the moment he's clinging to just one of them. But the past tense of "helped" suggests a number of poles, some of which have formerly served him and some not
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 May, 2013 11:03 am
@dalehileman,
Original: I stood clinging to one of the metal poles, which helped me balance.

Quote:
I disagree JTT. Obviously at the moment he's clinging to just one of them. But the past tense of "helped" suggests a number of poles, some of which have formerly served him and some not


Past tense 'helped' makes no reference to, nor does it suggest a number of poles. Does past tense 'helped' in the following sentence suggest a number of poles?

I stood clinging to a metal pole, which helped me balance.

dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 May, 2013 11:28 am
@JTT,
Quote:
Past tense 'helped' makes no reference to, nor does it suggest a number of poles.
That's right, it's modified either by "clinging," "one," or "poles" depending on emphasis and comma

Quote:
Does past tense 'helped' in the following sentence suggest a number of poles?

I stood clinging to a metal pole, which helped me balance.
No of course not

I think JTT we're experiencing a kind of semantic impasse
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 May, 2013 11:49 am
@dalehileman,
Quote:
That's right, it's modified either by "clinging," "one," or "poles" depending on emphasis and comma


Really, Dale?

clinging helped // one helped // poles helped

What meaning did you have in mind for "modified"?

Quote:
Does past tense 'helped' in the following sentence suggest a number of poles?

I stood clinging to a metal pole, which helped me balance.


Quote:
No of course not


If the verb 'helped' doesn't help your contention here, how could it help in the original?
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 May, 2013 12:05 pm
@dalehileman,
1A: I stood clinging to one of the metal poles (,) which helped me balance

An attempt to clarify: Without the comma, the tense "helped" suggests at least one past experience in which at least one or more of the two or more poles had proven to serve his need and that his last clinging refers only to a stable pole, "helped" referring to "one of the metal poles"

Thus he could have written, "which had helped me balance"; and if only two poles, "one of the two"

Thus I might have stood clinging to one of the two metal poles which had helped me balance. However this is complicated by the inference that both were stable

We must also address the possibility that some of the poles weren't metallic
0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 May, 2013 12:24 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
clinging helped // one helped // poles helped
hat meaning did you have in mind for "modified"?
Forgive me JTT I'm not much of a grammarian, but eg, "helped" is modified by "clinging" if it was mainly the clinging that was helpful, etc

Doubtless there's a better term


Quote:
If the verb 'helped' doesn't help your contention here, how could it help in the original [1A: I stood clinging to one of the metal poles (,) which helped me balance]?
By residing in past tense thereby suggesting a past experience in which some of the poles weren't helpful. The present tense "help," on the other hand, might imply that he actually had hoped to grasp two of the more stable poles in order to feel secure but could reach only one; in which case of course he might better have ssaid, "which had helped me"
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 May, 2013 08:20 am
@dalehileman,
dalehileman wrote:
a past experience in which some of the poles weren't helpful.


I once got lost in Warsaw and everybody I met was really helpful.
0 Replies
 
 

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