Homosexual Agenda Exposed!!!!!!

Tarantulas,

You are lying. I did not say those things you "quote".

Now I hope you just got quotes confused or something, because I certainly did not say that and if you are willfulling misquoting me your lacking integrity is on full display.

The fact that you have to resort to such outright lies speaks volumes about your intellectual integrity Tarantulas.

To "prove" your case against me you simply attribute "quotes" to me that I have never said.

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Yeah, you did say that.

Craven de Kere wrote:

Scrat wrote:
No, in other words, the original assumption that one could look at the spread of AIDS in Africa and infer that the same thing would happen in the US was flawed because it was based on a flawed premise; the the conditions under which AIDS transmission was rampant in Africa existed to the same degree in the US. They did and do not.

BECAUSE of said warnings.

In other words, what you said was that "the conditions under which AIDS transmission was rampant in Africa" do not exist in the US "BECAUSE of said warnings," i.e., sex education. You failed to consider the high rate of sexually transmitted disease in Africa as a reason for the higher AIDS rate in Africa. And that's the fallacy.

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Tarantulas,

You made up a "quote" and attributed it to me. They were your own words.

You make clear your lack of intellectual integrity through your willingness to simply lie and atrribute to others your own words.

Tarantulas wrote:

To lay it out very clearly for you, here's what you said:

Quote:
Sex education reduces AIDS, and most Africans have less sex education than Americans, so the higher African AIDS rates are due to their lack of sex education.

To lay it out very clearly for you those are words you wrote and subsequently lie about when attributing them to me.

No, I did not say that and it's a pity you have to write your opponent's words and try to pass it off as theirs to make a point.

Regards

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I've read this whole thing trying to ascertain RealityCheck's point, and apparently it is that those dastardly homosexual extremisist activists are making poor hetero RC worry that he could somehow get AIDS if he has reg'lar vanilla sex.

It can't be that he's against homosexuality in general, since lesbians have the lowest transmission rates of any of the four groups (homosexual men, heterosexual men, homosexual women, heterosexual women.)

It can't be that he's against male homosexuality and only male homosexuality, since heterosexuals transmit AIDS, too.

So what's left? He doesn't want to wear a condom?

If that's the case, RealityCheck, it's your perogative to take your chances with your (informed and consenting) opposite-sex partner. Good luck.

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Your quote was "BECAUSE of said warnings." I didn't make something up and try to pass it off as your words - I paraphrased what you said and tied it in to the previous quote by Scrat. If you believe my explanation was in error, then say so, and give reasons why. But don't try to tell me I lied about something. I clearly prefaced my paraphrase with "In other words," so there's no way you can accuse me of putting words in your mouth.

If you can't admit your fallacy then that's too bad. I suspect you might be the type of person who never admits a mistake. I've met a few of those before, and I'm starting to recognize the profile.

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Tarantulas wrote:

I clearly prefaced my paraphrase with "In other words," so there's no way you can accuse me of putting words in your mouth.

No you did not. You wrote your own text, put it in the quotes box and said that it was what I said.

You did not say that you were paraphrasing and using your own text. You tried to lie and pass it off as my words.

Quote:

If you can't admit your fallacy then that's too bad.

If you have to make up your own words to attribute to me that's too bad.

Quote:

I suspect you might be the type of person who never admits a mistake.

If by that you mean I don't "admit" to things you lie about you are right. I will not own up to your own words when you try to pass them off as mine.

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BBB
Why would anyone want to waste their time and energy in a debate such as that proposed.

There are more important and relevant issues facing us than this tired old canard.

Yawn Rolling Eyes

BBB

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Craven de Kere wrote:

Tarantulas wrote:

I clearly prefaced my paraphrase with "In other words," so there's no way you can accuse me of putting words in your mouth.

No you did not. You wrote your own text, put it in the quotes box and said that it was what I said.

After looking at my post again, I see what you mean. I revised it to add the word "(paraphrased)" to remove any lingering doubt about who said what.

Now that we're past that little bump in the road, tell me why your statement wasn't a fallacy.

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Thanks.

And I'll be happy to tell you.

First answer a question please. You said that I failed to consider that the STD rates might influence the rate of AIDs transmission.

Not having said anything about this I am not sure how you arrived at that conslusion but I am willing to skip that.

My question is:

Does sexual education have an effect of the rates at which STDs are transferred?

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BBB
The article I posted on the following site might be useful factual information on this subject:

The Development of Sexual Orientation
By John Money, PhD, Professor of Medical Psychology and Pediatrics, Emeritus, at The Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine.

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21369&highlight=

BBB

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Ah, back to rational discussion. Thank you too.

Craven de Kere wrote:

My question is:

Does sexual education have an effect of the rates at which STDs are transferred?

I believe that it does, yes. If someone is aware that engaging in certain behavior can be life-threatening, he might be inclined to avoid such behavior.

Craven de Kere wrote:

You said that I failed to consider that the STD rates might influence the rate of AIDs transmission.

Not having said anything about this I am not sure how you arrived at that conslusion but I am willing to skip that.

And this is the crux of the issue. You didn't consider Scrat's information, that STDs are more prevalent in Africa than in America. There may be many other factors that cause the African AIDS rate to be higher than the American AIDS rate.

Here's an example of a cultural factor in Africa that is different from the US. In Africa, it is customary for members of a village to wash the body of a dead person prior to burial. In the US, we turn the body over to the funeral director and he takes care of it. When the Ebola virus breaks out in an African village and a person dies of it, the members of the village wash the body, come into contact with the blood of the dead person, and become infected themselves. That would never happen in the US.

There may be many different reasons why Africa has a higher rate of AIDS than the US. Education is probably only one of them.

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Tarantulas wrote:

I believe that it does, yes. If someone is aware that engaging in certain behavior can be life-threatening, he might be inclined to avoid such behavior.

Thanks, establishing this makes my comments rather pedestrian and not at all out of the ordinary.

More on this later.

Quote:

And this is the crux of the issue. You didn't consider Scrat's information, that STDs are more prevalent in Africa than in America.

You really have no basis on which to make this claim and I assure you that I did.

Another question:

Do you think that the discrepancy between STD rates (other than AIDS) between Africa and the US might be influenced by sexual education?

Scrat and yourself seem to think you've happened upon a really relevant morsel of data: that STDs other than AIDS contribute to the spread of AIDS.

My poorly worded query immediately above is to determine whether you realize that as long as you agree that sexual education has an effect on STDs (as you agreed above) this is still covered.

In short, do you not agree that sexual education (and levels of education/awareness in general) contribute towards fighting AIDS and STDs?

And if it contributes to this, then the different rates for non-AIDS STDs are also effected by said education.

This is why I think the "other STDs" argument is underwhelming.

Quote:

There may be many other factors that cause the African AIDS rate to be higher than the American AIDS rate.

I'd go so far as to say that there are, as opposed to "may be".

Thing is, Scrat is trying to say that the AIDS awareness campaigns were misleading. And while all those campaigns tend to be misleading to some degree (e.g. the campaign against drugs) to point at the lacking epidemic as the evidence is fallacious since said campaigns have a stake in determining whether said epidemics will materialize.

Quote:

Here's an example of a cultural factor in Africa that is different from the US. In Africa, it is customary for members of a village to wash the body of a dead person prior to burial. In the US, we turn the body over to the funeral director and he takes care of it. When the Ebola virus breaks out in an African village and a person dies of it, the members of the village wash the body, come into contact with the blood of the dead person, and become infected themselves. That would never happen in the US.

What's your point? That with increased awareness of the dangers of certain behavior the Africans you speak of can reduce their risk? Very Happy

I'd agree with that, but then the effort made to change said behavior might be called conspiratorial by some if it succeeds.

Quote:

There may be many different reasons why Africa has a higher rate of AIDS than the US. Education is probably only one of them.

I agree, and where the hell's this fallacy you copied and pasted to this thread? Can you make the case for this without assuming meanings for things I said and without simply writing things for me?

Again, where is the fallacy in what I said (as opposed to what you write and pass off as what I said)?

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uh dud.......... reading.....

Reality? Check again.

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Craven de Kere wrote:

Another question:

Do you think that the discrepancy between STD rates (other than AIDS) between Africa and the US might be influenced by sexual education?

Scrat and yourself seem to think you've happened upon a really relevant morsel of data: that STDs other than AIDS contribute to the spread of AIDS.

My poorly worded query immediately above is to determine whether you realize that as long as you agree that sexual education has an effect on STDs (as you agreed above) this is still covered.

In short, do you not agree that sexual education (and levels of education/awareness in general) contribute towards fighting AIDS and STDs?

And if it contributes to this, then the different rates for non-AIDS STDs are also effected by said education.

This is why I think the "other STDs" argument is underwhelming.

I'm not so sure about this. I've seen a lot of information about "AIDS awareness" saying that you shouldn't share needles and you should always use a condom. I haven't seen the corresponding information publicized about other STDs. That might be because the other STDs are easily cured in the US, so a nationwide advertising campaign isn't seen as a high priority. Maybe in Africa, the other non-AIDS STDs aren't so easily cured. I don't have enough information to form an opinion here, but since Scrat says that STDs are more common in Africa, I would tend to believe him.

Craven de Kere wrote:

Quote:
Here's an example of a cultural factor in Africa that is different from the US. In Africa, it is customary for members of a village to wash the body of a dead person prior to burial. In the US, we turn the body over to the funeral director and he takes care of it. When the Ebola virus breaks out in an African village and a person dies of it, the members of the village wash the body, come into contact with the blood of the dead person, and become infected themselves. That would never happen in the US.

What's your point? That with increased awareness of the dangers of certain behavior the Africans you speak of can reduce their risk?

I'd agree with that, but then the effort made to change said behavior might be called conspiratorial by some if it succeeds.

The point was that there's a difference between our cultures, and there's no telling what kind of behavior the Africans engage in that people in the US would never think of doing.

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Tarantulas wrote:

...since Scrat says that STDs are more common in Africa, I would tend to believe him.

Tarantulas, whether or not STDs are more common in Africa is not a subject I ever disputed.

Let me run it by you one more time.

1) STDs are more common in Africa. This includes AIDS and other STDs.

2) Scrat said that the prevalence of other STDs helps spread AIDS. This is true for many reasons (the greatest of which is lesions).

My point is, that education and behavioral modification to prevent said STDs helps prevent AIDS too and that the fact that AIDS transmission can be helped by STD lesions does not preclude education and awareness playing a role in those other STDs that subsequently plays a role in AIDS transmission.

Quote:

The point was that there's a difference between our cultures, and there's no telling what kind of behavior the Africans engage in that people in the US would never think of doing.

No telling? I am beginning to suspect that yourself and Scrat's knowledge of AIDS in the third world is very superficial and comprised mainly of anecdotal evidence.

I've lived for severakl years in a third world nation that was seen as the poster child for combating AIDS and I know that there certainly is "telling" what works and doesn't and what behaviors increase or decrease risk.

Heck, you yourself pointed at a behavior you saw as being risky.

It's actually quite easy to tell what works when combatting AIDS. The hardest part is getting past people's prejudices to certain methods (e.g. a religious prejudice against methods of birth control) and the most important step is to recognize a problem.

Scrat and RealityCheck were pointing at the lack of an epidemic in the US to disparage the awareness campaigns. This is a dubious position for many reasons. The lack of an epidemic stateside can be attributed to many reasons, not the least of which is education and awareness itself.

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I've noticed a lot of people will lie in an argument, or discussion, to prove their point... not just "homosexuals with an agenda".

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The distribution of condoms and educational literature on AIDS in Uganda has had a dramatic effect, which gives the lie to the crap conservatives (especially religious conservatives) in the U.S. like to pedal. The following is from the Uganda AIDS Commission's "HIV AIDS in Uganda" page, and is dated Saturday, March 27th, 2004:

The first AIDS case was diagnosed in 1981 in the United States of America and in 1982 in Uganda . The disease has since spread to epidemic proportions around the world. UNAIDS estimated 24.8 million people who have lost their lives to the epidemic while 40 million people (children and adults) were estimated to be living with HIV/AIDS by the end of 2001. There are regional variances in HIV prevalence globally. Sub Saharan Africa, where Uganda lies, bears the heaviest burden of the epidemic accounting for 28.5 million children and adults (71.3%) of those living with HIV/AIDS globally.

In Sub-Saharan Africa, HIV is mainly transmitted through heterosexual intercourse. Variances in sexual behaviors across cultures, age groups, and gender usually influenced by culture and social, economic circumstances impact on HIV prevention interventions. As a result, poverty, underdevelopment and illiteracy contribute to the spread of HIV in the developing world yet HIV/AIDS is also seen to aggravate the poverty situation, hindering development efforts and eroding gains in various areas.

Uganda was among the first hard hit countries. The Ministry of Health Surveillance Unit estimated about 1,050,555 people living with HIV/AIDS by end of December 2001 and over 940,000 HIV/AIDS-related deaths since the onset of the epidemic in the country. At the end of 2002, the national HIV prevalence rate was estimated at an average of 6.2% of the total Ugandan population, following a history of declining trends from a national average of 18% with about 30% in the worst hit areas of the country in the early 1990s. The Ministry of Health estimated new infections in 2002 alone at 70,170 cases, new AIDS cases at 73,830 and AIDS deaths at 75,290. These figures could however be an underestimate, due to constraints in AIDS reporting and coverage of the sentinel surveillance system.

Even were those numbers an underestimate, everyone with any knowledge of AIDS in subsaharan Africa (the region of the world with the worst affliction) considers Uganda to be the best example of what a militant public health program to combat HIV/AIDS can accomplish, and that Uganda is the only nation in Africa which has reversed the trend in the incidence and prevalence of HIV/AIDS.

For the conservative sceptics among us who would wish to characterize this as propaganda, i offer the following:

Bush praises Uganda Aids fight (clickity-click)

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Re: Homosexual Agenda Exposed!!!!!!

RealityChecker wrote:

I am going to spend a considerable amount of time here exposing the lifestyle, behaviors and practices as well as the homosexual agenda here.

i need to look up considerable, my idea of what considerable means and rc's don't seem to jibe.

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Owl, for those not in the habit of giving much, or any, consideration to the substance of what they write or say before writing or saying it, a very little will satisfy the definition of "considerable."

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My mother was of considerable bosom.

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Homosexual Agenda Exposed!!!!!!

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