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MY FAVORITE IDIOT CONSPIRACY THEORY

 
 
Setanta
 
Reply Wed 24 Apr, 2013 11:24 am
Which is the Pearl Harbor conspiracy theory.

Conspiracy theory nuts usually have at least one of two problems: gross ignorance or dishonesty. Many combine these. I intend to review some of the ignorance of this conspiracy "theory."

The most common claim is that Franklin Roosevelt wished to enter the Second World War and that he therefore "provoked" the Japanese attack. One would think that "the Second World War" was some kind of floating party with multiple venues. While it is true that FDR wished to go to war with Germany, there was no reason to assume that war with Japan would lead that idiot Hitler to declare war on the United States, against all of Germany's best interests. No nation which was not bent on world conquest would willingly got to war on three different continents, two of them separated from the third theater of war by thousands of miles. Although many devotés of the Pearl Harbor conspiracy BS don't seem to realize is, this claim is pathetically implausible. How does one allege that the United States "provoked" war with Japan? Why would FDR assume that war with Japan would lead to war with Germany, which is what he wanted?

In 1937, Japan began the Second Sin9-Japanese War (i personally consider this to have been the beginning of the Second World War, but the Euro-centric view that that war began in Poland in 1939 prevails). The United Stares, England and France restricted contracts for war materials, but they did so for contracts with Japan and China. Believe it or not, nations have the right to control their foreign trade. Nowhere in international law is there a right to insist on trade under the threat of war. Nevertheless, many conspiracy theorists insist, and the defense briefs of attorneys representing Japanese officer accused of war crimes after the war make this argument. As though any American president could stay in office if he truckled to the demands of another nation who threatened the United States with war if he didn't comply.

In late 1937, during what was then known as the rape of Nanking, the Japanese bombed and sank USS Panay which was the river in the city, despite the large American flag painted on the deck. The Japanese apologized and paid an indemnity. Wars have been started, however, on far flimsier grounds than that. If Roosevelt had been that eager to go to war, he could not have had a better pretext. The fact of the matter was, though, that the United States was not prepared to go to war, and it wasn't in very much better shape four years later.

The United States did not institute a full embargo of petroleum, steel and scrap metal shipments to Japan until August, 1941. That didn't really matter, though, because Japan needed far more than the United States alone could provide. So it was that in 1938, Imperial General Staff officers (almost all of them army officers) began considering operations to secure the enormous petroleum and metal ore assets of southeast Asia. Some time in 1939, the concept of the "Southern Operation" came together. There was no single plan called the Southern Operation--operational plans were written for each target in French Indo-China, the British colonies on the Malay peninsula, Singapore and the west coast of Borneo, and the huge Netherlands East Indies, with more combined resources than England and France combined, several times over.

Operation M was the plan for the invasion of the Philippine Islands. Esentially, this was the invasion and occupation of Luzon, the island on which Manila is located, and where the overwhelming majority of American military assets were located. As the planners were army officers, they gave scant thought to the consequences of such an attack, providing only for neutralizing or destroying the U. S. Navy's assets stationed at Luzon. However, any intelligent naval officer in Japan (or anywhere else in the world, for that matter) knew that the Pacific Fleet could steam from their advance base in San Diego in under three weeks. Operation M envisioned taking Luzon in five weeks (in the event, it took five months).

The idea of an air attack on an enemy fleet had been kicking around Japanese naval circles since the 1920s. The combined fleet exercises in late 1939 and early 1940 focused on air attacks on an enemy fleet, with a particular emphasis on attacking ships in harbort. Yamamoto, as commander of the combined fleet, knew well that the planners for the southern operations were ignoring a potentially fatal flaw, in that the Pacific Fleet could interfere in the operations in less than a month, even if their operations went entirely according to plan (which did not happen). We don't have any documentary evidence other than a letter which Yamamoto wrote saying that war in southeast Asia would inevitably entail war with the United States. The hard-line militarists took this as evidence that Yamamoto was in favor of war with the United States, which shows that they really didn't know Yamamoto.

But Yamamoto was a career naval officer who knew his duty. He understood that something more than attacking the handful of ships in the Philippines would have to be done. Even with the Pacific Fleet based on San Diego, it would be necessary to assemble the fleet in Hawaii before proceeding--he knew that it would be necessary to attack Hawaii. In the spring of 1941, the Pacific Fleet's advance base was moved from San Diego to Hawaii, which, although it made the situation more crucial, just made the task easier.

Because Yamamoto was already planning for an attack on Hawaii. On the night of November 11-12, 1940, air forces of the Royal Navy in the Mediterranean attacked the Italian fleet at Taranto. It was a poorly planned and executed operation, carried out with obsolete, open-cockpit biplanes, and yet they managed to damage three Italian battleships, sinking one of them (one of the others limped to the quays and the other was saved when the quick-thinking officer of the watch ran her aground). A few days later, Yamamoto ordered his chief of staff to begin planning for an air attack on the United States Navy. Upon the return to Japan of Lt. Commander Genda in early 1941, Yamamoto appointed him plans and operations officer, and told him to begin planning an air attack on Hawaii. This took place before the Pacific Fleet moved from San Diego to Hawaii.

Certainly the Japanese thought they had good reason to go to war with the United States, but it is absurd to claim that the Japanese were provoked. I'd like to know how anyone claims you can provoke someone into war if you don't actually attack them.

As i've already pointed out, FDR wanted to go to war with Germany, and there was no good reason to assume that war with Japan would lead to war with Germany. Furthermore, this idiot conspiracy theory is based on the most hilarious claim that FDR knew about the Japanese attack but didn't warn anyone. Any high-ranking military man in the world in 1941, with two brain cells to rub together knew that the United States and Japan would soon go to war. There were just two questions: where and when. The best answer Roosevelt and his advisers could come up with in 1941 were "soon" and "somewhere in the Pacific." So the administration DID warn commanders in the Pacific:

Quote:
Nov. 24, 1941
FROM: Chief of Naval Operations

ACTION: CinCAF, CinCPAC, Com 11, Com 12, Com 13, Com 15

INFO: Spenavo London Cinclant

242005

Chances of favorable outcome of negotiations with Japan very doubtful. This situation coupled with statements of Japanese Government and movements their naval and military forces indicate in our opinion that a surprise aggressive movement in any direction including attack on Philippines or Guam is a possibility. Chief of Staff has seen this dispatch concurs and requests action adees [addressees] to inform senior Army officers their areas. Utmost secrecy necessary in order not to complicate an already tense situation or precipitate Japanese action. Guam will be informed separately.

Copy to WPD, War Dept. and Op-12 but no other distribution.


This was two weeks before the attack

Quote:
War Warning Message from Chief of Naval Operations

Nov. 27, 1941
FROM: Chief of Naval Operations

ACTION: CinCAF, CinCPAC

INFO: Cinclant, Spenavo

272337

This dispatch is to be considered a war warning. Negotiations with Japan looking toward stabilization of conditions in the Pacific have ceased and an aggressive move by Japan is expected within the next few days. The number and equipment of Japanese troops and the organization of naval task forces indicates an amphibious expedition against either the Philippines, Thai or Kra Peninsula or possibly Borneo. Execute an appropriate defensive deployment preparatory to carrying out the tasks assigned in WPL 46. Inform district and Army authorities. A similar warning is being sent by War Department.

Spenavo inform British. Continental districts Guam, Samoa directed take appropriate measures against sabotage.

Copy to WPD, War Dept.


This was eleven days before the attack.

Quote:
Army Alert Sent by Chief of Naval Operations:

Nov. 28, 1941
FROM: Chief of Naval Operations

ACTION: Com Pnncf, Com Psncf

INFO: Cincpac Com Pncf

28----

Refer to my 272338. Army has sent following to commander western defense command.

Negotiations with Japan appear to be terminated to all practical purposes with only the barest possibilities that the Japanese Government might come back and offer to continue. Japanese future action unpredictable but hostile action possible at any moment. If hostilities cannot repeat not be avoided the United States desires that Japan commit the first overt act. This policy should not repeat not be construed as restricting you to a course of action that might jeopardize your defense. Prior to hostile Japanese action you are directed to undertake such reconnaissance and other measures as you deem necessary but these measure should be carried out so as not repeat not to alarm civil population or disclose intent. Report measures taken. A separate message in being sent to G-2, Ninth Corps Area re subversive activities in the United States. Should hostilities occur you will carry out the tasks assigned in Rainbow five so far as they pertain to Japan. Limit dissemination of this highly secret information to minimum essential officers. Unquote. WPL 52 is not applicable to Pacific area and will not be placed in effect in that area except as now in force in southeast Pacific sub area and Panama naval coastal frontier. Undertake no offensive action until Japan has committed an overt act. Be prepared to carry out tasks assigned in WPL-46, so far as they apply to Japan in case hostilities occur.


This was sent out ten days before the attack.

It's rather absurd to claim that FDR knew, but kept it a secret when messages of this kind were sent out with his prior knowledge and consent. The message to army commanders is significant because at that time, there was no air force. The air defenses of American territory, possessions and bases was in the hands of the Army Air Force.

That Kimmel (Commander in Chief, Pacific Fleet), Short (commaner of the Army's Hawaii Department) and MacArthur (American commander in the Philippines) sat around for two weeks and did nothing can hardly be laid at Roosevelt's door. That's not entirely fair, though. General Walter Short did do something. He was obsessed with fifth columnists, with saboteurs. So he had all the fighter aircraft pushed to middle of the airfields, away from the perimeter fences, and had the antiaircraft artillery ammunition locked up so that saboteurs could not use it to blow up his planes. You can imagine what it was like on the USAAF airfields on the morning of the attack.

Personally, i think there were two initial motives for the Pearl Harbor hysteria and the accusations against FDR. The first is obvious: politics. Every right-thinking, red-blooded American conservative knew that Roosevelt was a dangerous socialist who would sell the country down the road to forward his own ambitions.

The other is racist. The American stereotype of the Japanese was bandy-legged, buck-toothed, myopic little runts with pop-bottle glasses-- little better than monkeys' The First Air Fleet had pulled off one of the greatest operations in naval history, and had gotten away almost scott free. Obviously, those nasty little yellow monkeys could not have done this on their own, so FDR must have colluded with the literally thousands of military officers involved to make it possible. (The mere idea of such a vast conspiracy would be hilarious, were it not for how seriously people take this.)

Yamamoto, Genda and Fuchida planned, trained for and carried out the greatest military operation in Japanese history. Kimmel and MacArthur did nothing, and Short descended into obsessive madness. I guess the conspiracy theorists think FDR should have flown to Hawaii and held everyone's hands.
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Apr, 2013 12:09 pm
@Setanta,
Who hasn't heard of the theory that FDR knew, but did nothing? However, that theory may have served the purpose of FDR taking all the blame for the lives lost at Pearl Harbor, since we did not know when and where an attack would occur, and since there was a military alliance between Germany, Japan and Italy for the express purpose (in Germany's perspective) to keep the U.S. out of the war (since we would supposedly not enter a war against three strong nations), it would likely be best if naval commanders did not get involved in saying who was to blame for the resulting surprise after the Japanese attacked.

In other words, as conspiracy theories go, I consider it a "red herring" for the ulterior purpose of preventing any naval commanders from being blamed, and then U.S. could fight Japan, and be ready for Germany to enter the war, without any commanders losing effectiveness due to blaming them.

Naturally, if the theory that FDR knew, and did nothing, got touted by the post WWII academicians, it became more than a theory; it became part of the popular culture, and as valued as fact, in my opinion. But, if it was put out in the spirit of misinformation, then those who dabble in conspiracy theories were possibly being duped by those who disseminate misinformation on purpose.

In other words, conspiracy theories can serve the express purpose of befuddling the facts, so most people never focus on what's really behind many occurrences (Holmes always knew Moriarity was behind many a bad occurrence, and not what it appeared as).









sS
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Wed 24 Apr, 2013 12:11 pm
My favorite idiot conspiracy theory, and one of this site's biggest idiots shows up.
Foofie
 
  4  
Reply Wed 24 Apr, 2013 12:37 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

My favorite idiot conspiracy theory, and one of this site's biggest idiots shows up.


More pro bono constructive criticism; your largesse knows no bounds (in my opinion).
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Apr, 2013 03:29 pm
@Setanta,
There was American involvement in the Sino/Japanese conflict prior to Pearl Harbor. Don't just tell the facts that support your side of the story.

Quote:
The American Volunteer Group was largely the creation of Claire L. Chennault, a retired U.S. Army Air Corps officer who had worked in China since August 1937, first as military aviation advisor to Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek in the early months of the Sino-Japanese War, then as director of a Chinese Air Force flight school centered in Kunming. Meanwhile, the Soviet Union supplied fighter and bomber squadrons to China, but these units were mostly withdrawn by the summer of 1940. Chiang then asked for American combat aircraft and pilots, sending Chennault to Washington as advisor to China's ambassador and Chiang's brother-in-law, T. V. Soong.

Since the U.S. was not at war, the "Special Air Unit" could not be organized overtly, but the request was approved by President Franklin D. Roosevelt himself. The resulting clandestine operation was organized in large part by Lauchlin Currie, a young economist in the White House, and by Roosevelt intimate Thomas G. Corcoran. (Currie's assistant was John King Fairbank, who later became America's preeminent Asian scholar.) Financing was handled by China Defense Supplies – primarily Tommy Corcoran's creation – with money loaned by the U.S. government. Purchases were then made by the Chinese under the "Cash and Carry" provision of the Neutrality Act of 1939. Previously in the 1930s, a number of American pilots including Annapolis graduate Frank Tinker had flown combat during the Spanish Civil War, engaging Nazis and fascist Italians. Members were organized into the Yankee Squadron. Chennault spent the winter of 1940–1941 in Washington, supervising the purchase of 100 Curtiss P-40 fighters (diverted from a Royal Air Force order; the Royal Air Force at that time deemed the P-40 obsolete) and the recruiting of 100 pilots and some 200 ground crew and administrative personnel that would constitute the 1st AVG. He also laid the groundwork for a follow-on bomber group and a second fighter group, though these would be aborted after the Pearl Harbor attack.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Tigers
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Apr, 2013 03:43 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta" wrote:
In 1937, Japan began the Second Sin9-Japanese War (i personally consider this to have been the beginning of the Second World War, but the Euro-centric view that that war began in Poland in 1939 prevails). The United Stares, England and France restricted contracts for war materials, but they did so for contracts with Japan and China. Believe it or not, nations have the right to control their foreign trade. Nowhere in international law is there a right to insist on trade under the threat of war. Nevertheless, many conspiracy theorists insist, and the defense briefs of attorneys representing Japanese officer accused of war crimes after the war make this argument. As though any American president could stay in office if he truckled to the demands of another nation who threatened the United States with war if he didn't comply.


Maybe they were going by the precedent set by the US in 1853 when it went in to Edo Bay harbor to coerce Japan to open up to foreign trade, and bombed several buildings in the harbor to demonstrate its earnestness.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Apr, 2013 04:20 pm
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
US in 1853 when it went in to Edo Bay harbor to coerce Japan to open up to foreign trade, and bombed several buildings in the harbor to demonstrate its earnestness.


For a second I thought that I was reading a JTT post!

In any case, I did not think that we shelled the Japanese shore and it seems that we did not do so as a matter of fact.



Quote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_C._Perry#Threat_of_force_and_negotiation

As he arrived, Perry ordered his ships to steam past Japanese lines towards the capital of Edo, and position their guns towards the town of Uraga.[11] Perry refused to abide to demands to leave.[11] He then demanded permission to present a letter from President Millard Fillmore, and threatened to use force if the Japanese boats around the American squadron did not disperse.[11]
Perry attempted to intimidate the Japanese by presenting them a white flag and a letter which told them that in case they chose to combat, the Americans would necessarily vanquish them.[12][13] Perry's ships were equipped with new Paixhans shell guns, capable of wreaking great destruction with every shell.[14][15] The term "Black Ships", in Japan, would later come to symbolize a threat imposed by Western technology.[16]
After the Japanese agreed to receive the letter from the American President, Perry landed at Kurihama (in modern-day Yokosuka) on July 14, 1853[17] presented the letter to delegates present, and left for the Chinese coast, promising to return for a reply.[18]
Fortifications were built in Tokyo Bay at Odaiba in order to protect Edo from possible American naval incursion.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Apr, 2013 04:53 pm
@BillRM,
Hmm, I got the info from Wikipedia also:

Quote:
When Commodore Matthew C. Perry's four-ship squadron appeared in Edo Bay (Tokyo Bay) in July 1853, the bakufu (shogunate) was thrown into turmoil. Commodore Perry was fully prepared for hostilities if his negotiations with the Japanese failed, and threatened to open fire if the Japanese refused to negotiate. He gave them two white flags, telling them to hoist the flags when they wished a bombardment from his fleet to cease and to surrender.[8] To demonstrate his weapons Perry ordered his ships to attack several buildings around the harbor. The ships of Perry were equipped with new Paixhans shell guns, capable of bringing destruction everywhere a shell landed.[9][10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opening_of_Japan#Commodore_Perry_.281853.E2.80.9354.29
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  2  
Reply Thu 25 Apr, 2013 05:39 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

My favorite idiot conspiracy theory, and one of this site's biggest idiots shows up.


I believe that most people's "favorite idiot conspiracy theory" would be the JFK assassination. In my opinion, the question about whether FDR knew, didn't know, wanted war with Germany, etc., etc., is under the main heading of "a tempest in a teapot," at this point in the 21st century. I say that since JFK's assassination, if it was thwarted, might have made the Vietnam Era play out differently (advisors would have come back?), and many of our peers' lives would have been different. Well, if you are still commiserating with "the greatest generation," go ahead; however, in my opinion, it is anachronistic, to say the least, since it does not affect the generation still alive.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Apr, 2013 08:47 pm
following along
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Apr, 2013 02:25 am
@izzythepush,
Read your own source, dipshit . . . it was organized under the same neutrality legislation which governed relations with both belligerent parties. The "American involvement" was not a legal activity of the United States government,

I don't know what point you think you are making, because as usual, you react with mild hysteria, and your remarks are muddled, lacking any clear reference to the topic. Would you allege that the participation of subjects of the United Kingdom in the Spanish civil war constituted official British involvement in that war? The historians in your own nation would not agree with you.

If you come up with something which is actually germane, come back and post. This is merely your typical bullshit, and has no relevance at all to the goofy allegation that FDR knowingly "provoked" a war with Japan in order to have the opportunity to go to war with Germany. If you post again, try posting something which is actually a propos.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Apr, 2013 02:27 am
@InfraBlue,
Which has what to do with the allegation of a conspiracy on the part of FDR to provoke Japan into war so that he could go to war with Germany?
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Apr, 2013 02:42 am
From Wikipedia:

Quote:
The 1st American Volunteer Group were recruited starting on 15 April 1941, when an unpublished executive order was signed by President Roosevelt. A total of 100 P-40Bs were obtained from Curtiss-Wright by convincing the British Government to take a later batch of more advanced P-40s in exchange. The group assembled at a Royal Air Force airfield in Burma by November 1941 for training, where it was organized into three squadrons and established a headquarters. The Flying Tigers did not go into combat until after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941. Under Chennault's command, the Flying Tigers became famous in the defense of Burma and China. It was replaced by the U.S. Army 23rd Fighter Group in July 1942. (emphasis added)


By what passes for logic at Izzy the Putz' house, the assembly and training of American aviators at an RAF airfield in Burma constituted British participation in the war in China.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Apr, 2013 02:58 am
It is gratifying, although not surprising, that this topic has attracted so many idiotic responses.
roger
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Apr, 2013 03:11 am
@Setanta,
And, so unexpectedly.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Apr, 2013 03:25 am
For a few days, nobody but Miller/Foofie responded, so i was surprised to see responses this morning. However, i soon saw that not a single one of them was germane to the topic. I don't read posts by Miller/Foofie, so i neither know nor care what the content was.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Fri 26 Apr, 2013 03:36 am
@Setanta,
Only in your egotistical imaginings could cutting and pasting from Wikipedia be classed as hysterical. As soon as you're faced with facts that don't fit in with your narrative, you start throwing out insults. As always, entirely predictable behaviour.

You like to pontificate, and as such, whenever you come across anyone who doesn't treat you with the fawning sycophancy you believe you deserve, you act like a spoiled five year old.

Your condescending tone suggests that America had not done anything at all to provoke Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor. Without letting imperialist Japan off the hook, that is clearly not the case. The establishment of the "Special Air Unit," was provocative. It was approved by Roosevelt, and organised by a 'retired' American serviceman. Your analogy with the volunteers who fought in the Spanish Civil War is erroneous, there was no covert backing by the UK government. A far better anology would be the behaviour of the Soviets during the Cuban missile crisis.

Your pathetic attempt to turn this into a UK/USA spat is also predictable. The use of British air bases in Burma to train pilots is irrelevant. This is about your ridiculous assumption that America did nothing to provoke Japan prior to Pearl Harbor, it's not about whether or not the UK was similarly provocative.

You're really incapable of debating anything without resorting to insults and name calling. I know you think your pronouncements carry the same weight as papal edicts, but that's not the case. You need to stop taking everything so personally, it's really quite pathetic, as is your choice of insults. Izzytheputz is something a five year old could come up with, although they wouldn't quite take as long as you, kids have quite good imaginations. Calling you Malvolio may be as childish, but it's also very accurate, and is beyond the reach of most five year olds.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Apr, 2013 03:58 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
The establishment of the "Special Air Unit," was provocative.


So helping out a nation under attack and invaded by a foreign power is a provocation to the invaders? An attack/invasion condemn by the League of Nations it memory serve me correctly?

The special air unit that was not set up to attack the Japanese home islands or any territory of Japan.

Quote:
A far better anology would be the behaviour of the Soviets during the Cuban missile crisis.


Strange as I can not think of a greater threat to the US main land then a nuclear base with missiles aim at us and yet that action compare in some manner to our pre-world war 2 actions that was not a threat to the Japanese homelands in your mind!!!!!!!!!!

0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Fri 26 Apr, 2013 04:04 am
@izzythepush,
He's says, while throwing out insults.

The cut and paste was not the hysterical response, the allegation that i was only posting information which "fit in with [my] narrative" was the hysterical response. You alleged that the United States was involved in the war in China in 1937. That was not true. You have not posted anything which is germane to the topic. If you do, i'll respond to that.

I have posted information from Wikipedia which shows that the American Volunteer Group (the only plausible basis for a claim of "covert" backing) did not go into combat until after December 7, 1941. I guess you'll ignore that because it doesn't fit in with your narrative. All participation by Americans before that time was exactly the same as volunteers in the Spanish civil war. It does not surprise me that you don't see that, as it doesn't fit in with your narrative.

I'm not trying to "turn this into a UK/US spat." That's what you consistently do. I'm just pointing out that you have no basis for your claim that there was American participation in the war in China before the attack on Pearl Harbor.

You began your participation here with a fling about not posting anything which fit into my alleged narrative, and now you're whining about insults and name calling. You really cannot see yourself objectively. That's your tactic, and you displayed it abundantly in this post.

If you have any evidence that Roosevelt actively "provoked" war with Japan in order to have the opportunity to go to war with Germany, then you should present it.

By the way, in the ultimatum delivered by Admiral Nomura to the White House on December 7, 1941 (local), both the United States and Great Britain are blamed for the state of affairs. After all, they were attacking Hong Kong at the same time.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Apr, 2013 04:29 am
Many (probably most) of the conspiracy theorists claim that Roosevelt "provoked war" so that he could make war on Germany, so that he could go to war in Europe. Here is a typical example of the claim:

Quote:
Whether or not FDR knew about the Japanese plans to attack Pearl Harbor actually misses the larger and more important issue, which is the fact that the Japanese were provoked into attacking America at Pearl Harbor. The majority of Americans, and even service men, were unaware of what was going on behind the scenes, but not all were. FDR had been charged in public with agitating for war since 1939. FDR had to push the Japanese into attacking the United States because the overwhelming majority of Americans opposed getting involved in the war and Japan itself had no intentions of attacking the United States, their interest was Asia. Without FDR's antagonisms towards the Japanese, Congress and the American people never would have allowed FDR to declare war on Japan or Germany; FDR knew this, and he also knew how important it really was that America join in the war against fascism and imperialism.


Furthermore, there is this feeble and naïve claim:

Quote:
Hitler also did not want to declare war on America however, but when war broke out between Japan and the United States, Japan forced Hitler to declare war on America because of the alliance between Japan and Germany.


Source--a typical conspiracy rant.

That would be laughable, except, as already noted, so many people believe that kind of drivel. How, exactly would Japan "force" Germany to declare war? When Hitler went to war with Poland, France and England, the Japanese did not declare war on those nations. In fact, when Hitler invaded the Soviet Union, the Soviets were able to rush troops from the far east to defend Moscow and Leningrad because Japan had concluded an armistice with the Soviet Union on September 15, 1939. It is an absurdity to claim that Japan and Germany were true allies and that either one acted in the interest of the other. If Hitler actually were so naïve as to declare war on the United States because a state of war existed between the United States and the Empire of Japan, then the bigger fool he. Japan certainly did nothing to aid the German war effort.

Roosevelt could not have known that war with Japan would bring a declaration of war by Germany.

That web site is dedicated to the promotion of the McCollum memorandum as evidence that FDR willfully provoked war. In open, public testimony before Congress, Lt. Commander McCollum denied that the intent of the plan outlined in the memorandum was to provoke war with Japan, and explicitly stated that the plan was never implemented. Furthermore, McCollum testified that he had never had any contact with FDR.

Finally, there is the time line. McCollum's memorandum was dated in October, 1940. It went first to two Navy captains in ONI (Office of Naval Intelligence), then to the Secretary of the Navy, then the Secretaries of War and State. Leaving aside that there is no evidence that FDR ever saw the memorandum, and McCollum's testimony before Congress that the plan was never implemented, there sinply was not time enough for such a plan to have taken effect. The memorandum was in October, 1940, and Yamamoto ordered his chief of staff to begin planning for an attack on the United States in November, 1940.

Conspiracy theorists, once again, are either ignorant, dishonest or both.
0 Replies
 
 

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