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Who's brainwashed in America?

 
 
Fedral
 
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2004 12:15 pm
Who's brainwashed in America?[/u]
Dennis Prager
March 23, 2004

Ask some non-religious liberal friends how they would describe a person who attended only fundamentalist Christian or ultra-Orthodox Jewish schools from preschool through graduate school. "Brainwashed" and "closed-minded" would be their most likely answers, and they would often be right. Most people assume that any person who is exposed to only one way of looking at the world for all of his or her life can hardly be regarded as open-minded.

Now ask those same individuals how they would describe a person who attended only secular schools from preschool through graduate school.

Your friends would probably look at you with incomprehension. What kind of question is that? After all, they and the great majority of people in our country attended secular schools, and they consider themselves perfectly normal and open-minded.

"Brainwashed"? "Closed-minded"? Such terms cannot possibly be applied to the secular or the "progressive," only to the religious and conservative.

But, of course, such a response is logically untenable. If a person is to be considered brainwashed for having only received a religious education, a person who has received only a secular or liberal (as in politically liberal) education should be regarded identically.

In fact, when secular people and those on the Left deny this, it actually illustrates that they probably have been brainwashed. The secular/Left immersion they underwent has been so effective that it has rendered them incapable of realizing that they have been so immersed.

This is one reason it has become more and more apparent that the most closed-minded people in American and European society today are not the religious but the secular, not the Right but the Left. The majority of even fundamentalist Christians and Orthodox Jews are exposed to far more secular thought and behavior than the secular are exposed to religious thought and behavior. Virtually all religious Christians and Jews study secular subjects, have been taught by secular teachers, read secular books, and watch secular films and secular television. Virtually no secular people have studied religious subjects, been taught by religious teachers, or read religious books, let alone watched religious films or television, neither of which exists in any number.

The same holds true for liberals and conservatives. Virtually every conservative reads a liberal newspaper, watches liberal newscasts, reads liberal magazines, and has been taught in liberal schools by liberal professors. Few liberals have read a conservative newspaper (there are almost none anyway), read a conservative magazine, studied in conservative schools or been taught by a conservative professor (of whom there are also almost none).

So who exactly is more likely to be provincial and ignorant of other ways of thinking? The question is rhetorical. That is why the late distinguished University of Chicago professor Allan Bloom wrote his best-selling "The Closing of the American Mind," not about religious or conservative America but about secular liberal America as embodied in its temple, the university.

That also helps explain why the secular Left (not yet a redundant phrase, but getting there) so often hurls epithets -- "racist" (for opposing affirmative action), "homophobe" (for opposing the redefinition of marriage), "sexist" (for opposing medically unnecessary abortions) -- instead of offering reasoned responses.

As befits a person who has almost never been exposed to opposing ways of thinking, sustained argument is not possible.

Just as many liberals and secularists can only imagine a religious person being brainwashed, not a liberal or a secular one, they likewise can only imagine religious extremism, never secular extremism. One can easily be too religious, but never too secular. Yet, we have far more secular extremism than religious extremism in our society.

The ACLU is one such example. The organization recently threatened to sue the National Park Service over two little plaques at the Grand Canyon that had Psalms written on them. That most Americans do not consider a lawsuit over something so trivial a manifestation of extremism only proves how effective the secular brainwash is.

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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2004 12:20 pm
re the ACLU and the above "truth"
"The ACLU honestly didn't do anything but raise the question, and the local staff reacted to that inquiry," Interior spokesman David Barna said.
In actuality The "praise plaques" quoting Psalms came down following the May court ruling ordering removal from the Alabama Supreme Court rotunda of a 5,280-pound granite monument that includes passages from the Ten Commandments.
When one has an agenda, the facts just seem to get in the way.
0 Replies
 
suzy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2004 12:46 pm
What, fedral, you don't support the ACLU?
"The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) is our nation's guardian of liberty. We work daily in courts, legislatures and communities to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties guaranteed to every person in this country by the Constitution and laws of the United States. Our job is to conserve America's original civic values - the Constitution and the Bill of Rights."
Ooh, sinister! {{shudder}}
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2004 12:48 pm
The righties hate the ACLU--until they need the ACLU's help or until they think the gov't has gone too far in taking away individual liberties. Then the tune is different...
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2004 12:50 pm
Quote:
"preserve the individual rights and liberties guaranteed to every person in this country by the Constitution and laws of the United States. Our job is to conserve America's original civic values - the Constitution and the Bill of Rights"

hardly the neo-con agenda, not even the same ball-park, Liberals have a few problems with this as well. The cure for most problems with democracy is more democracy.
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suzy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2004 12:51 pm
"If a person is to be considered brainwashed for having only received a religious education, a person who has received only a secular or liberal (as in politically liberal) education should be regarded identically."
Actually, I don't know any adult who was raised with no religion. They make a choice whether or not to continue with it. It seems that many Liberals who are not religious have simply explored other religious options and found that they come up short as well.
But I guess if you want to call trying to learn about other beliefs "secular brainwashing", that's your perogative!
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suzy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2004 01:00 pm
Ollie North sure liked the ACLU.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2004 01:31 pm
Quote:
Virtually every conservative reads a liberal newspaper, watches liberal newscasts, reads liberal magazines, and has been taught in liberal schools by liberal professors. Few liberals have read a conservative newspaper (there are almost none anyway), read a conservative magazine, studied in conservative schools or been taught by a conservative professor (of whom there are also almost none).

I saw a teaser for a news story the other day asking whether the ill treatment conservative kids get in school is a form of harassment or "just the price you pay for being in the minority". (I'm not making that up.) The suggestion, that it may be okay for these kids to be treated badly because of their opinions, seems like it would be a pretty hard sell if their opinions were liberal opinions.
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2004 01:39 pm
Oh, brother. Those poor children.

What is what with the self-pity? You guys run the country right now!
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ConstantlyQuestioning
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2004 01:39 pm
Who is brainwashed in this country? It depends on who you ask. If you ask conservatives, then the liberals are brainwashed. If you ask liberals, then the conservatives are brainwashed. Liberals are brainwashed in "liberal academia" while conservatives are brainwashed at "fundamental religious institutions."

The whole brainwashing thing (like most petty insults) is just a way to avoid debate by painting your opponent in a negative light.
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2004 01:53 pm
ConstantlyQuestioning wrote:
The whole brainwashing thing (like most petty insults) is just a way to avoid debate by painting your opponent in a negative light.

I'm inclined to agree, but I do think the author made a very good, very important point about the experiential disparity between most liberals and most conservatives. I get the impression that most liberals don't seek out conservative points of view, and many I've run across actively avoid being shown any source that might diminish their certitude in the correctness of their chosen (or indoctrinated) point of view.
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2004 01:58 pm
FYI Scrat: I generally read Safire and Brooks. Do they count? Or are they not pure enough because they appear in the NY Times? Does one have read Ann Coulter to disprove your argument?
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2004 01:58 pm
The same can be said for most conservatives as well.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2004 02:12 pm
D'artagnan wrote:
FYI Scrat: I generally read Safire and Brooks. Do they count? Or are they not pure enough because they appear in the NY Times? Does one have read Ann Coulter to disprove your argument?

What exactly was my argument, D'art? I recall offering my impression of most liberals, but no argument that you can prove or disprove based on your personal experience. If your point is that you do not fit my impression of most liberals, good for you! If you think you have evidence that most liberals are not as I have suggested, feel free to offer that.
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2004 02:49 pm
Do you know the difference between anecdotal evidence and real reasearch, Scrat? What you're describing is the former: "This is what I've noticed..."

Means very little, since there's no way to argue with that. That's why real research requires some sort of quantification.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2004 03:53 pm
D'art - I recognize exactly what I wrote, and I tried to write it to avoid people leaping to the conclusion to which you seem to want to leap. I did not write that "all liberals are X", nor did I write that "most liberals are X". What I wrote was that I believe I've noticed what the author comments upon here; I think his comment is valid based on my own observations and experience. While that isn't a scientific sampling, last I checked it was perfectly acceptable to share our personal opinions and experiences in these discussions.

As an example of the kind of thing I've noticed... most liberals with whom I've had discussions, including most of my extended family, have strong negative opinions regarding Rush Limbaugh, yet when I ask them how often they listen to him, I find almost without exception that the individual espousing this emphatic negative opinion of Limbaugh and his show has actually never heard one nanosecond of Rush's show and has never actually read or heard anything Rush himself has written or said. These decent, reasonable people have formed an unshakable opinion based on second, third, and fourth hand information from sources they often can't even name. They've never considered the possibility that what they think they know of Rush might be wrong, and have never been the least bit curious to check for themselves what the man actually has to say.

I am NOT suggesting ANYTHING about Rush or his show. My point is that if I were to share an opinion about either, it would be based on both hearing and reading opinions about Rush and on hearing and reading Rush himself. Without regard to whether my opinion of Rush is "right" or "wrong", it is without question a better informed opinion than that of someone who has never listened to Rush, never read a word he has written.

Of course I realize that there are lots of people out there who call themselves liberals and don't fit that narrow mold, but the reality is that whether you are a liberal or a conservative in this country (US) you are automatically immersed in the liberal point of view, and have to go looking for most conservative sources. That condition preloads individual biases towards the liberal viewpoint, absent any personal curiosity acted upon by the individual.

If you disagree with that notion, consider the fact that there are mainstream conservative women's organizations in the US comparable to the liberal-leaning National Organization of Women, and then ask yourself how often you have seen anyone from a conservative women's organization interviewed during a news story about abortion rights or others "women's" issues. The supposition is that the liberal point of view is the mainstream point of view, and this supposition is evident in many cases where statistics show that the liberal opinion on an issue is in the minority.

Lastly, lest you think I'm unaware of it, let me just add the caveat that everything I think may be wrong. Okay? Cool
0 Replies
 
Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2004 04:14 pm
Fair enough, Scrat. While I don't listen to Limbaugh, I do sometimes watch O'Reilly. I find his approach repugnant. Since I've actually watched him, is it OK for me to say that?
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blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2004 04:17 pm
Some of things I think about I could probably use a good brainwashing.......
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2004 04:20 pm
D'artagnan wrote:
Fair enough, Scrat. While I don't listen to Limbaugh, I do sometimes watch O'Reilly. I find his approach repugnant. Since I've actually watched him, is it OK for me to say that?

Are you seeking my approval? (Actually, if I didn't know better, I'd think you're just spoiling for an argument.)
0 Replies
 
Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2004 04:21 pm
Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
0 Replies
 
 

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