So, do you come to praise Margaret Thatcher or bury her?

Forums: Margaret Thatcher, Thatcherism
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A polarising figure in death as in life. Can't believe it hasn't already appeared as a thread on A2K - so here goes: your thoughts....

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Type: Discussion • Score: 21 • Views: 8,160 • Replies: 110

[+6] - Setanta - 04/10/2013So how many exceptions do you need before the rule ceases to be a rule? You're basing this entirely on the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union failed because of a command economy. Spain and Portugal...
[+5] - Frank Apisa - 04/10/2013 [quote]Perhaps you failed to notice the sad history of the 20th century. The socialist experiment didn't work anywhere it was tried. In most cases the result was tyranny and poverty.[/quote]...
[+4] - hingehead - 04/09/2013And the economic catastrophe they are now in too?
[+4] - hingehead - 04/10/2013 George, George, George, where do I begin? [quote]She left office more than twenty years ago. What is your concept of the time lapse involved here?[/quote] You think two decades wipes all...
[+4] - Frank Apisa - 04/10/2013George... ...first of all, what Izzy, Beth, Setanta, and Hingehead said. But there is even more to the issue. At some point, I think we will all finally get through our heads that...
[+4] - fbaezer - 04/10/2013I guess I stand on middle ground, or left-to middle ground here. Of course "real socialism" was a failure everywhere, from China to Cuba to the USSR to Albania to Ethiopia to DDR to...
[+4] - Frank Apisa - 04/11/2013[quote]Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5300732) Did you ever serve in any military organization? If so which and in what capacity?[/quote] Yes, I served in the Strategic Air Command, USAF during the...
[+4] - fbaezer - 04/16/2013"Real Socialism" is a term to distinguish between theoretical Socialism -the empowering of the working class in a fair society, and the "true start of History" (Marx dixit)- and...
[+3] - hingehead - 04/08/2013From twitsphere [img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BHXulBiCQAAr5wN.jpg[/img]
[+3] - mesquite - 04/09/2013[img]http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/azstarnet.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/8/3f/83f0190a-a07a-11e2-9c96-001a4bcf887a/51630d7780d87.preview-620.jpg[/img]

@hingehead,

I was never a fan, quite the opposite, so praise is out of order from me.
But - I've probably expressed enough in other times to friends/associates, and will let it go for now. For a clue to what I think, see Izzy's irate posts on the Brit thread. I'm probably more despondent - he's quite a bit younger and more bumptious than I am.

I don't regret her dying. I don't regret her life. I regret her actions won out, in that time period.

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@hingehead,

From Billy Bragg, Calgary, AB, Canada, on the death of Margaret Thatcher:

This is not a time for celebration. The death of Margaret Thatcher is nothing more than a salient reminder of how Britain got into the mess that we are in today. Of why ordinary working people are no longer able to earn enough from one job to support a family; of why there is a shortage of decent affordable housing; of why domestic growth is driven by credit, not by real incomes; of why tax-payers are forced to top up wages; of why a spiteful government seeks to penalise the poor for having an extra bedroom; of why Rupert Murdoch became so powerful; of why cynicism and greed became the hallmarks of our society.

Raising a glass to the death of an infirm old lady changes none of this. The only real antidote to cynicism is activism. Don't celebrate - organise!

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@ossobuco,

I take my queue from a Thomas Friedman point in 'The World Is Flat' that basically said [massively paraphrasing from memory] as the world globalises there are rapid techtonic shifts in the socioeconomic status of nations. People will get hurt, it is the thankless task of governments to manage those shifts as best they can to minimise the pain.

On that basis alone I consider Baroness Thatcher a poor 'manager of government'.

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@hingehead,

That's a bit presumptuous, that everyone dealing with the fallout can organize and - the unstated - if you don't you're somehow at fault. How very sparky. Generally a sign of youth and health and/or access, where many are just keeping their heads and children's heads above water.

I understand there are users of the system(s) but there are many just hanging in.

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She was a sort of British version of Reagan. Can't praise that.

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From twitsphere

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BHXulBiCQAAr5wN.jpg

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@hingehead,

Oh snap, that's funny!

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The Guardian waited until the 2nd paragraph to mention the taxpayer burden of her funeral.

Lots of quotes from various figures, ending with George Galloway's curt "Stamp the dirt down"

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/4/8/1365456662820/Steve-Bell-09.03.2013-013.jpg

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She is/was/will be a very controversial politician.
I think as a woman she climbed high and was able to stay for a long time in a men´s world. That is an accomplishement in itself.
I enjoyed to see a picture of her amongst all the men at EU meetings.
She was very outspoken about the Sowiet Union and she was right.
She was an EU scepticer and it has in many ways turned out she was right.
These two things does not mean she was right in other areas. UK is suffering from her area of politics. There is no doubt about that. That is a shame.

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@hingehead,

Is it the family who wants to have a big funeral or is it so many politicians, journalists and others who wants to be in the picture ?
With a big funeral the taxpayer have to pay for the funeral? Security at the funeral will cost a lot of money.

I think when politicians visit a foreign country their own country should pay for the security - if it is not a very special state visit. All these foreign dignities will cost an awful lot of money.
She is not head of state and should have a dignified funeral and not a state funeral.
A country can be represented by a diplomat so the head of states does not have to come. That would save millions of the taxpayers money.

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@saab,

I'm not sure who/what drives the funeral - it's probably protocol for a former head of state. It's not a state funeral, it's one rung down the protocol tree - I can't remember what the actual terminology is.

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@hingehead,

Thatcher set the tone that means it's quite acceptable for a premiership football club to hire a fascist as manager.

http://sabcat.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/seasideshirt.png

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

Thatcher set the tone that means it's quite acceptable for a premiership football club to hire a fascist as manager.

As an American, I did not like Margaret Thatcher. I remember my college days when most US campuses were collectively active in trying to rid South Africa of apartheid. PM Thatcher appeared on TV apparently quite content with the status quo and found nothing wrong with Whites oppressing African natives in their own land.

I've also read in the UK, a Duke paid the same tax as a dustman, thanks to Thatcher, and later this led to riots. Izzy, in many ways, my emotions resemble yours....I possess strong feelings...and at that time I felt I hated Thatcher. I understand Baroness Thatcher’s death unleashed a wave of acrimoniousness and venom from the Left. In the US there are waves of what a good PM she was but there are Thatcher's critics as well.

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@Moment-in-Time,

I was also winding up Hinge, he's a Sunderland supporter and they've just appointed Paolo Di Canio, a fascist, as manager.

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@Moment-in-Time,

Moment-in-Time wrote:

I've also read in the UK, a Duke paid the same tax as a dustman, thanks to Thatcher, and later this led to riots.

That was the poll tax, an attempt, which failed, to make everyone pay a flat fee for local services as opposed to a sliding scale dependent on the size and value of your property.

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

The former Deputy Labour Leader of Liverpool City Council, Derek Hatton, joined in the scathing attacks on the late Baroness Thatcher and said his wished she had never been born.

Millionaire businessman Hatton, made his fortune in property and an internet company he launched with his son Ben.

Speaking in Liverpool, Hatton, 65, said: "I am certainly not going to join in the many people who are saying that they are glad that a human being has died.

"But what I would say though is that it is a pity she was ever born, and I regret that Thatcherism ever came about.

"The harm that she did in the country and particularly in this city was massive and I don't think anyone will ever forget that."

http://www.clickliverpool.com/news/liverpool-news/1218573-margaret-thatcher-liverpool-responds---derek-hatton-says-its-a-%5Cpity-she-was-born%5C.html

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Quote:

MP George Galloway provoked angry reactions on Twitter today after apparently expressing his satisfaction at the death of Baroness Thatcher.

The Respect MP for Bradford West wrote "Tramp the dirt down" on his feed - the name of a song by Elvis Costello in which he attacks the former Conservative prime minister.Mr Galloway's reference comes from a song by Costello, in which he sings: "When England was the whore of the world / Margaret was her madam.

It continues: "'Cos when they finally put you in the ground / They'll stand there laughing and tramp the dirt down."

In a further message on the social networking site, Mr Galloway added: "Thatcher described Nelson Mandela as a "terrorist". I was there. I saw her lips move. May she burn in the hellfires."

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/anger-at-george-galloways-tramp-the-dirt-down-twitter-remark-after-thatchers-death-8564876.html

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@hingehead,

see if you can find the fairly lengthy interview the CBC did with Billy Bragg yesterday - worth the search

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@hingehead,

Certainly not one of my favorite people...and it appears she did as much damage to Great Britain as Ronald Reagan did to America.

But she is dead. It does no good to take shots at her now. If anything, I hope the British people use her death as a reason to reflect on the dangers of far right mentality.

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So, do you come to praise Margaret Thatcher or bury her?

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