Taking out the terrorists

ConstantlyQuestioning wrote:

Quote:

And to be fair I suggest the revision that Israeli leadership hates Palestinians.

You can suggest it, but I don't agree with it. Show me the Israeli school lessons where they teach their kids that Palestininas are pigs and infidels. Do Israeli teachers teach their kids that Palestinians kill little Jewish boys and use their blood to make pastries? I don't think so, but the Palestinians teach their kids just that. I think that might be a good indicator of who hates who: what they teach their children.

Unstated premise: If the schools do not teach these things Israeli leadership does not hate.

This is a false premise.

Unstated premise: If the schools do not teach these things Israeli leadership does not hate.

This is a false premise.

They not only hate Palestinian leadership, they go and kill them. That must be the ultimate hate.

Quote:

Scrat,

Are you suggesting a genocide?
If you are suggesting genocide, have the guts to come right out and say it.
This sounds an awful lot like a final solution.

That's quite a leap ebrown. No where in Scrat post did he/she advocate genocide of the Palestinian people.

Quote:

The problem is that short of genocide, it is impossible to win a war to subgegate an occupied population.

I not sure about that. Germany and Japan seemed to handle our occupation of their lands without resorting to children suicide bombings, and we didn't have to exterminate their populations. So I think this point is invalid.

Are you aware of any Israeli document of manifesto or official policy that equals or even approaches the Hamas guidelines?

I would dare say that you can't, but then you do seem to have an in-exhaustable supply of knowledge...

How about another, the Hamas Charter vs the Israeli Constitution.

Are there any references in the IC where they say it is the moral duty of Jews to kill Palestinians?

I bet I can find some references like that in HC about it being a moral duty for Muslims to kill Jews.

Oh but wait, just because the IC doesn't say they hate them, doesn't mean they don't. Is that right?

Is that another false premise?

So in other words, there are no pieces of evidence, no bits of fact, no type of behavior, no lessons taught to kids, etc that will convince you that the Israeli leadership does not in fact hate the Palestinian people.

Would your response be along the lines of:
"Unstated Premise: If evidence suggests the IL doesn't hate the PP, then they don't hate them
This is a false premise"

McGentrix wrote:

Are you aware of any Israeli document of manifesto or official policy that equals or even approaches the Hamas guidelines?

I would dare say that you can't, but then you do seem to have an in-exhaustable supply of knowledge...

Yes I am. But not of the Israeli government but rather some of their more misguided zealots.

Of course, the scope of their actions is such that I don't really consider it relevant.

Hamas, BTW, is not the Palestinian government either, despite their strong standing in Palestinian society.

The Israeli government has political parties that reject peace outright and who wish to ethnically cleanse the Palestinian territories ("no Palestinian state west of the Jordan"). In fact Sharon's own party went against his wishes and voted for a resolution to never allow a Palestinian State west of Jordan.

Both governments make similarly idiotic moves, and your comparison of Hamas to government is misleading as Hamas is the enemy of the Palestinian state too. You will not find such idiocy in the PA's inception.

You seem to be wanting to compare one side's idiots to the other side's government. Israel's ability to quell their idiots is due to the control they have over their territor and population. Such control is something they go out of their way to deny the PA. So they destroy PA structure while demanding that they reign in militants.

There are few people who think the PA in its current weakened state can reign in the militants yet Israel is determined to keep the PA weak.

Israel goes out of its way to destroy PA infrastructure as when they do so, Palestinian zealots give them a pretext to continue their occupation and delay a final settlement while they strategically settle the Palestinian territories.

But ultimately this is not relevant to the issue of hatred. Are you saying that you need a comparable document to believe that there are Israelis who hate the Palestinians?

And to be fair I suggest the revision that Israeli leadership hates Palestinians.

I think the implication you are trying to make is that somehow there is a character defect in the Palestinians (obviously not in the Japanese or the Germans) that makes it necessary to subjugate them for 50 years. If this is this case, it is pure racism.

If this is not what you are trying to say, then please explain why the German and Japanese occupations lack the brutal oppression that Israel seem to feel is necessary.

You have jury-rigged this comparison by trying to compare a terrorist organization with a well-established government.

I'm sure you can, you are indulging in a fallacious basis of comparison.

You are catching on slowly but surely.
you seem to enjoy fallacy as this is a straw man.
You must love straw people, this is a shoddy and intellectually bankrupt level of debate.

To assume that hate is only taught and learned in a school environment is naive.

When you support your assertion that all Palestinians are retarted and deserve to die I'll explain to you what a straw man is.

You are again constructing a straw man by the implication that I'd called that piece of text a straw man when I did nothing of the sort.

Debators who are sloppy like to debate against arguments of their own creation rather than actuallya ddress what WAS said to them.