Taking out the terrorists

ebrown_p wrote:

Why shouldn't we try reason for a change?

Because it doesn't exist in the Middle East.

The Palestinians HATE the Jews. There is no reasoning with hatred.

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Well I agree that life is better than death. There was once a "road map to peace" that both sides were following, and there was even a cease fire. But then one side killed someone on the other side and the road map was torn up. Now it seems neither side is willing to stop fighting.

Maybe the solution is to create a separate country called "Palestine" and set up a demilitarized zone between it and Israel. But both sides want to own Jerusalem...or something...not sure exactly what each side really wants.

What we need is someone with the diplomatic expertise of Captain Picard to negotiate a lasting peace. Where did all the great diplomats go?

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McGentrix wrote:

ebrown_p wrote:
Why shouldn't we try reason for a change?

Because it doesn't exist in the Middle East.

The Palestinians HATE the Jews. There is no reasoning with hatred.

It sounds like you don't think too highly of the Palestinians either.

But I do agree with that last part -- There is no reasoning with hatred.

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Quote:

McGentrix wrote:
ebrown_p wrote:
Why shouldn't we try reason for a change?

Because it doesn't exist in the Middle East.

The Palestinians HATE the Jews. There is no reasoning with hatred.

It sounds like you don't think too highly of the Palestinians either.

I think MCG should amend his statement as follows: The Palestinian leadership HATES the Jews.

edited for mistype.

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ConstantlyQuestioning wrote:

Quote:
McGentrix wrote:
ebrown_p wrote:
Why shouldn't we try reason for a change?

Because it doesn't exist in the Middle East.

The Palestinians HATE the Jews. There is no reasoning with hatred.

It sounds like you don't think too highly of the Palestinians either.

I think MCG should amend his statement as follows: The Palestinian
Quote:
leadership
HATES the Jews.

fair enough.

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ebrown_p wrote:

But I do agree with that last part -- There is no reasoning with hatred.

Just out of curiosity, would you accept the corollary that anyone who attempts to reason with hatred is misguided?

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ConstantlyQuestioning wrote:

I think MCG should amend his statement as follows: The Palestinian leadership HATES the Jews.

And to be fair I suggest the revision that Israeli leadership hates Palestinians.

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Craven de Kere wrote:

ConstantlyQuestioning wrote:

I think MCG should amend his statement as follows: The Palestinian leadership HATES the Jews.

And to be fair I suggest the revision that Israeli leadership hates Palestinians.

You are being reasonable Craven. They won't like that.

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Craven de Kere wrote:

ConstantlyQuestioning wrote:

I think MCG should amend his statement as follows: The Palestinian leadership HATES the Jews.

And to be fair I suggest the revision that Israeli leadership hates Palestinians.

I don't see that as being fair.

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I've come to believe that the only thing that is going to bring peace to the Israeli/Palestinian problem is for Israel to take the gloves off and win the war against the Palestinian murder apparatus once and for all. The problem is that people keep trying to force the two sides to the peace table while the war is still on. Peace may simply not be possible until one side emerges the victor. There's no question that side will be Israel, and I wonder how many additional deaths are being piled up over time as Israel tries half-measures to placate Washington and the largely anti-Israeli international community. I don't relish the thought of the carnage that would result from Israel really cleaning the Palestinian house once and for all, but I do suspect that it would pale by comparison to the body count we'll see if current trends continue to play out for years and years.

My heart goes out to innocent Palestinian and Israeli people caught in the middle, but I have no emotional attachment to the Palestinian thugs lining up to be willing pawns to Arab governments using them to try to drive Israel into the sea. They can lay down their weapons and their struggle, or they can be laid out in the morgue. Either works fine for me.

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Scrat,

Are you suggesting a genocide?

Israel has their gloves off. They control all of the occupied territory. They assassinate Palestinians at will. They knock down houses, they use torture and they confiscate land. They use economic collective punishment.

What more can Israel do to "take the gloves" off. It seem to me that anything more would mean genocide.

The problem is that short of genocide, it is impossible to win a war to subgegate an occupied population. If people have nothing to live for, they have nothing to lose. This is pretty much the situation that Israel is facing.

But this thing about placating the "large anti-Israeli international community" is pure hogwash. Israel has flouted international law for years and shows no sign of caring.

If you are suggesting genocide, have the guts to come right out and say it.

If not, you better clarify what you mean by "Cleaning the Palestinian house once and for all". This sounds an awful lot like a final solution.

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Given the description of the killing of the Hamas leader as part of "Israel's right to defend itself," I'm sure a better term than genocide would be used if that becomes the strategy.

Oh, wait, wasn't that tried once before?

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I'm going to start a new thread about HAMAS, please feel free to join in

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Quote:

And to be fair I suggest the revision that Israeli leadership hates Palestinians.

You can suggest it, but I don't agree with it. Show me the Israeli school lessons where they teach their kids that Palestininas are pigs and infidels. Do Israeli teachers teach their kids that Palestinians kill little Jewish boys and use their blood to make pastries? I don't think so, but the Palestinians teach their kids just that. I think that might be a good indicator of who hates who: what they teach their children.

Quote:

You are being reasonable Craven. They won't like that.

Back to the argument of "disagreement with me= lack of reason/close mindedness"?

Quote:

I wonder how many additional deaths are being piled up over time as Israel tries half-measures to placate Washington and the largely anti-Israeli international community. I don't relish the thought of the carnage that would result from Israel really cleaning the Palestinian house once and for all, but I do suspect that it would pale by comparison to the body count we'll see if current trends continue to play out for years and years.

Excellent point Scrat. I firmly believe that a decisve and total victory will save more lives down the road than 20-30 more years of the current situation.

Quote:

My heart goes out to innocent Palestinian and Israeli people caught in the middle, but I have no emotional attachment to the Palestinian thugs lining up to be willing pawns to Arab governments using them to try to drive Israel into the sea.

I feel the same.

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McGentrix wrote:

I don't recall Washington attacking British civilians. I don't recall Washington sending kids in to British civilian shopping centers with explosives strapped to their backs.

Fighting against an occupation force and terrorizing a civilian populace are far different causes.

I wasn't there, but like in every war innocent lives were lost.

And I dont want to defend the attacks on civilians. But i understand the desperateness of some Palestinians. Washington had a army, arms and space to fight his battles and dodge the enemy. The Palestinians have none of that.

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ConstantlyQuestioning wrote:

Quote:
And to be fair I suggest the revision that Israeli leadership hates Palestinians.

You can suggest it, but I don't agree with it. Show me the Israeli school lessons where they teach their kids that Palestininas are pigs and infidels. Do Israeli teachers teach their kids that Palestinians kill little Jewish boys and use their blood to make pastries? I don't think so, but the Palestinians teach their kids just that. I think that might be a good indicator of who hates who: what they teach their children.

Unstated premise: If the schools do not teach these things Israeli leadership does not hate.

This is a false premise.

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They not only hate Palestinian leadership, they go and kill them. That must be the ultimate hate.

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Quote:

Scrat,

Are you suggesting a genocide?
If you are suggesting genocide, have the guts to come right out and say it.
This sounds an awful lot like a final solution.

That's quite a leap ebrown. No where in Scrat post did he/she advocate genocide of the Palestinian people.

Quote:

The problem is that short of genocide, it is impossible to win a war to subgegate an occupied population.

I not sure about that. Germany and Japan seemed to handle our occupation of their lands without resorting to children suicide bombings, and we didn't have to exterminate their populations. So I think this point is invalid.

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frolic wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
I don't recall Washington attacking British civilians. I don't recall Washington sending kids in to British civilian shopping centers with explosives strapped to their backs.

Fighting against an occupation force and terrorizing a civilian populace are far different causes.

I wasn't there, but like in every war innocent lives were lost.

And I dont want to defend the attacks on civilians. But i understand the desperateness of some Palestinians. Washington had a army, arms and space to fight his battles and dodge the enemy. The Palestinians have none of that.

Using an army to fight an army is sometimes legitimate, and I believe that in Washington's case it was. Sending a bomber to a public place with the goal of murdering civilians is the act of scum who deserve nothing other than swift and terrible justice. Note that in this last sentence I am referring only to the specific people who plan or carry out the act.

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frolic wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
I don't recall Washington attacking British civilians. I don't recall Washington sending kids in to British civilian shopping centers with explosives strapped to their backs.

Fighting against an occupation force and terrorizing a civilian populace are far different causes.

I wasn't there, but like in every war innocent lives were lost.

And I dont want to defend the attacks on civilians. But i understand the desperateness of some Palestinians. Washington had a army, arms and space to fight his battles and dodge the enemy. The Palestinians have none of that.

Innocent lives lost vs, innocent lives targeted. Big difference.

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Taking out the terrorists

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