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Why do kids obey the Dad more?

 
 
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 04:50 pm
My partner of 15 years and me have a 14 yr old son and 13 yr old daughter. They were good kids growing up and usually get along great. But on Thursday they argued and came to blows and things got ugly quick,because they both have their father's tall and lean build and the girl has her father's hot temper. I got to the room 1st and tried to verbally break up the fight, but was flat out ignored! My husband came shortly after[he was asleep and it took him a few minutes to wake up]. He effortlessly pulled them apart without a word and dared them to try to get at each other again. He had our daughter's arm and she was still looking for a fight, so she tried to pull away and her brother was happy to return to fighting too. I told them to stop and calm down, but again was ignored.
My husband momentarily released his grip, took off his belt, and sat down on the couch. The kids stopped instantly, but they had already disobeyed. If I had said I was going to spank them they would've laughed, but he didn't have to say a word. When he beckoned our daughter and patted his lap, she went right over and got over his knee. When he was done with her, she got up and went to her room. Same with our son, though he did sort of put up a fight towards the end when the licks started getting to him.
The next day it was like nothing ever happened and the kids are back to being besties.
 
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 05:27 pm
@VidaGold,
Sounds like all is well. He's a disciplinarian and you're not. As their parent, you most likely have other positive assets. You're children are now obeying and there's peace in the valley, right?
0 Replies
 
PUNKEY
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 06:45 pm
He spanked with a belt? That's just brutality, not good parental discipline. That kind of discipline will last until your kids are bigger than their dad.

You need to sit down with the kids and discuss what happened to start this conflict and what else they could have used besides fighting to come to an agreement. That is the verbal way to end conflict and mom's are good at that.
Mame
 
  0  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 07:35 pm
@PUNKEY,
Good luck with that.
0 Replies
 
gene32
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Apr, 2013 02:37 am
@VidaGold,
I guess the problem here is that you are not dominant enough or are too kind when you shouldn't be. Both parents should have the same point of view when disciplining the kids.

I wish you the best!
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Apr, 2013 03:53 am
@PUNKEY,
Quote:
He spanked with a belt? That's just brutality, not good parental discipline.
How uh, interesting a conclusion. Despite the ever increasing ill discipline of the current generation, apparently how they disciplined back when manners commonly existed is just plain wrong. Apparently, such discipline was never matched by a corresponding love (according to the 'it's torture' believers). Apparently they all get scarred (despite the huge number of people who say it had completely the opposite effect). Seriously - what do you know about the situation to make that sort of claim?

Quote:
That kind of discipline will last until your kids are bigger than their dad.
Kids don't always grow up to be bigger than their parents. Usually it would no longer be necessary by around the 10-12 year mark in any case, but different families vary a bit.

Quote:
You need to sit down with the kids and discuss what happened to start this conflict and what else they could have used besides fighting to come to an agreement.
That would assume that the parent had good mediation skills (which aren't inborn, nor everyones strength), and that the children had a grounding (that is, a foundation of beliefs and knowledge about themselves) to listen to such, rather than 'it's her / his fault', 'he/she did...', 'she/he made me...' etc

Quote:
That is the verbal way to end conflict and mom's are good at that.
Uh, and if she's not?
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Apr, 2013 04:01 am
@VidaGold,
A few possible guesses :
- they may get consistency in discipline from their father, or;
- they may get consistency in conflict from their father, or;
- a combination of both

It's also possible they are terrified of him.

It is unusual that a 14 year old boy would submit to such discipline. But, as I said previously, some family dynamics do vary in this area.

It could even be that they submitted because their father was disappointed in them.

Again - family dynamics are hard to know without seeing them at work. How you see the situation playing out, may not at all be how the others see it occuring.

Oh one other thing...when people are in heated conflict, they rarely listen to people talking with a high pitch. We are genetically dispositioned to ignore such. And the higher it raises, the more we are programmed to ignore it.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  4  
Reply Mon 8 Apr, 2013 06:07 am
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:

Quote:
He spanked with a belt? That's just brutality, not good parental discipline.
How uh, interesting a conclusion.


I'm not opposed to a toddler getting a whack on the behind with an open palm, especially through the cushion of a diaper, to get their attention. More of the sound of the loud whack, not meant to physically hurt them.

However, hitting anyone, adult, child, teen with an object is called beating.

I'm not an advocate of causing physical pain to make someone bend to your will.
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Mon 8 Apr, 2013 06:29 am
@VidaGold,
VidaGold wrote:

I got to the room 1st and tried to verbally break up the fight, ...

He effortlessly pulled them apart without a word

With emotions running high, you were not going to get them to stop verbally, but you could have done what your husband did - get between them and pull them apart. What, you say that both children are bigger than you? So what? It sounds like you are in a reasonably loving home, so it is very likely that your children are not going to hit you. The reason your husband was able to "effortlessly pull them apart" was not that he is a super stud (although he may be) it was that they weren't going to directly fight their parent. When I went to high school, it was an all boys school and tempers would occasionally flair in the school yard. Our principal was around 5-8, 150 pounds. He would step in and drag apart boys who were larger and stronger than him without a thought because he knew they would not hit him. Likewise, if you step between your children, push them apart and tell them to knock it off, it is very likely that no matter how angry they are, they are not going to push you out of the way to get to each other. (If you never swear, a carefully placed swear word will also act to break up the dynamic.)

On another note, you might want to spend some time with your daughter discussing that temper. Of course it takes two to tango, but from your description, your daughter doesn't know when to call it a day and that's not going to work well as she gets older.
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Apr, 2013 10:57 am
@VidaGold,
VidaGold wrote:
When he beckoned our daughter and patted his lap, she went right over and got over his knee. When he was done with her, she got up and went to her room. Same with our son, though he did sort of put up a fight towards the end when the licks started getting to him.


If this is true, this man is a violent criminal.
0 Replies
 
amy37
 
  0  
Reply Mon 8 Apr, 2013 02:52 pm
@VidaGold,
Your probably the loving one and it's your husband that has probably administered the punishment most of the time right? I think you have a good think going of good cop bad cop.

In later years when they get older and are about to do something bad, it's your gentle spirit and love that will keep them from doing it, not his belt. So this is a great combination to have as parents.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Apr, 2013 03:32 pm
@chai2,
Quote:
However, hitting anyone, adult, child, teen with an object is called beating.

I'm not an advocate of causing physical pain to make someone bend to your will.


There we go again - like it's 'pain' in isolation.

'Discipline', in any form, done out of anger, is counterproductive in the long run.

Discipline, balanced with love is usually productive in the long run.

...of course the long run outcome depends on consistency.

The forms of discipline vary. An approach 'balanced with love' will consider the individual and the family dynamic. An approach done out of anger will not.

Words and (poor/awful) attitude are much more damaging than a strap balanced with love...just as a strap out of anger can be much more damaging than words of disappointment (or however you choose to handle it with words, or other methods) balanced in love.

Methods using just verbal skills are usually the best, but it's illogical to assume that everyone has the ability to do it this way. Condescending and preaching to people whose strengths don't lie in this area...telling them how they are a terrible person for physically disciplining their child...removes a legitimate source of teaching discipline to a child.

The true nature of discipline by the way, is not about punishment...which is just one aspect of it, and a starter aspect at that.
------------------------
That's the response if we are discussing discipline in relation to the true age of these kids. I don't know why you jumped to an example using a toddlers age.

I would consider at 2 years of age, only a mild smack (and a stern talking to - for the tones rather than the words) to deter them from doing dangerous things - after all, at 2 years of age - having no comprehension of many dangers, explaining would do little good...that sort of thing is what makes it a different discussion.
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Mon 8 Apr, 2013 06:50 pm
@vikorr,
Funny vikorr, I didn't say any of that.

I didn't even speak of discipline.

I said hitting someone, anyone with an object is called beating, and I'm not in agreement with beating, or hitting with a hand to make them do what you what to do.

This applies to children, adults and animals.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Mon 8 Apr, 2013 06:53 pm
@vikorr,
Discipline with 'love' attending (this will help you, it will, it will) can be the mantra of a maniac.
I agree with Chai on this, strongly.
I think the whole mild slaps thing can be an entry to whaparoo, for both parties, the child some time later.

The only person I know who slapped her son (a woman I like, used it to manage) was faced with a teen druggie/alcoholic and more. Not all re the slaps, of course.

So, do you like to be slapped? As a human?
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Apr, 2013 08:37 pm
@ossobuco,
Quote:
Discipline with 'love' attending (this will help you, it will, it will) can be the mantra of a maniac.
Of course it can be...if you have a warped view of love...just as if you have a warped view of anything.

Quote:
So, do you like to be slapped? As a human?
Slapping is not discipline, in any shape or form. The face has particular emotional associations that rule that out - nor was it mentioned anywhere in the post previously. Answering 'no' to your question (which I would) is in no way a reflection of my thoughts regarding physical forms of discipline. I know many normal, well adjusted people who were physically disciplined (4 of my siblings and I included), with love.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Apr, 2013 08:49 pm
@vikorr,
That's nice. I was slapped twice and I remember both times. You think slapping only happens with the face?

Why would you think people would benefit by being hit? slapped, whatever. Especially when, say, three years old? Constrained, I understand.

So you and your siblings were disciplined physically, all with love. How, exactly? To work you up for war at an early age?
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  0  
Reply Mon 8 Apr, 2013 09:09 pm
@vikorr,
Quote:
So, do you like to be slapped? As a human?
One of the issues always faced in any debate of this type, is the type of 'discipline' experienced by people on both sides of the divide (while they were growing up)

Those who experienced good forms of physical discipline, inevitably support it (or don't have anything against it) - for they experienced, and see all around them, the positive results of physical discipline (done properly), and see the negative results of both : a lack of discipline, and 'poor/incorrect discipline'. Regarding the latter part of that last sentence - those who experienced positive physical discipline disagree with beatings, with face slapping, with excessive force, and with discipline without a balancing love (which isn't saying "I'm only doing this because I love you' - but the actions, support, warmth, time and interest in the person that comes with love). They also tend to disagree with 'discipline' done out of anger...which is not discipline at all.

Those that experienced the negative forms of discipline, in this sort of forum, inevitably (and understandably) associate such with beatings and violence...which is what they experienced under the guise of 'discipline'. In my experience, they inevitably take most of what a person who experienced positive physical discipline has to say, and attach negative labels to such, and use examples which most sane people would find abhorrent/wrong...and tie the example to a 'positive example' (positive to the person who finds positives in correctly done physical discipline)...which view they (people who experienced poor/incorrect discipline) hold of the positive, bears no resemblance at all to the other parties experiences...

...in other words, it's usually an emotional debate based on family history, with two parties talking about related, but in the end, entirely different things.

For my own :

All my siblings bar one (so 3 & 1), experienced positive physical discipline.

All are law abiding, well employed, well mannered. One struggles a bit more than the rest of us. That is to say, our mother (who was the disciplinarian in the family - who as a balance, also put a hell of a lot of time and love into us) made mistakes with one of us, and wasn't perfect.

My history includes : several drags by the ear, one stick, 2 belts, and probably a few whacks on the shoulders (not sure about that last bit). One the balance side, she spent a lot of time explaining right & wrong to us, teaching us about the dangers of the world, teaching us to respect our elders, teaching us about responsibility, spending time with us at playgrounds, to fetes, taking us fishing, coming to school with meals for us, driving us around...etc.

It's not that other ways can't work...but going down that path is a whole topic in itself.
0 Replies
 
 

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