2
   

What does the word "right" mean in "whatever is, is right"?

 
 
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 07:54 am
If someone says "English as a language should be destroyed," he cannot be right. But "whatever is, is right" is often used to defend bullshits.

Context:

Explain the meaning of "Whatever is, is right," from Epistle 1 of Pope's An Essay on Man.

I need general clarification of the big picture of Pope's meaning. Pope declares, "Whatever is, is right." Does he believe that even horrible things that happen all around are part of a larger plan, compelled by God, that is "right" in ways that we can't fully appreciate?

Does he mean that wars or outbreaks are 'right' in a larger sense? Would he explain to a dying individual that what he is suffering is "right"? Would he explain that an individual who loses someone in car accident due to a drunk driver is 'right'? What is Pope really declaring here regarding what is right?
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Type: Question • Score: 2 • Views: 5,695 • Replies: 7
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View best answer, chosen by oristarA
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 08:12 am
@oristarA,
K.. I'm a wee bit confused what you're asking here, but I'm going to take a stab at it.

First.. it's never bullshits.. it is just plain bullshit.
2. I've never heard the 'whatever is, is right' saying to it can't be used all that often, as least not here in my neck of the woods. Mind you I don't hang with popes.
3. My best guesstimate is that ' whatever is, is right' refers to god's will. Whatever god does, it must be right because s/he is god. It's circular thinking, the belief in 'god's plan' and it must not be questioned. In other words Faith..
4. The bullshit part is that whenever the tough questions are asked, after a war, a disease, an untimely death, people are given this as an answer. Why would any of these things be god's will or plan?
4. I have no idea why god would want English destroyed.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 07:31 pm
@Ceili,
The saying "whatever is, is right" contains the seed that is at war with itself:

The saying "whatever is, is right" is absolutely wrong and must be abandoned.

Is this right? If it is, it will have destroyed itself.
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 10:01 pm
@oristarA,
What? No... Beliefs like taste can never be truly wrong, misguided maybe. God's plan may be true, it may not.. ultimately it's an opinion. You either believe something or you don't.
2+2=4. Is right? It's scientifically correct.
How about 2+2=5? If I believe it to be correct, there's not much you can to dissuade me, but tell me the truth or your version of the truth and explain why my answer is wrong. If I still choose to believe 5 is the right answer - c'est la vie, I'm wrong in your eyes.
Since none of us will ever truly know the truth about god, unlike science or proven theories that are described as an absolute or provable.
A persons religious beliefs may be correct for them, but wrong for you. Nothing about religion is an absolute, unless the believer believes it is so. Yet, it still a belief and not an absolute till proven, and god still remain elusive.
Nothing about what was said before or in this reply has anything to do with destruction. However, if there was a war and the red team won and church goers believed that this was god's plan, who are we to argue. To the victor goes the spoils...
I might think they're full of crap, but that's my opinion, not the word of god or an absolute. Was this god's plan? Who knows?? but to the believers it will always be so.
There is a similar saying in Islam - it's the will of Allah.
It basically comes down to, you, the believer thinking, knowing in their heart of hearts, that god, in his/her infinite wisdom, can see the whole picture and while his/her plan may seem incomprehensible to you, the mere mortal, you have to/must believe that s/he knows best. In other words, Faith.
McTag
  Selected Answer
 
  2  
Reply Mon 8 Apr, 2013 12:47 am
@oristarA,

I could guess.

" Epistle I concerns itself with the nature of man and with his place in the universe; Epistle II, with man as an individual; Epistle III, with man in relation to human society, to the political and social hierarchies; and Epistle IV, with man's pursuit of happiness in this world. An Essay on Man was a controversial work in Pope's day, praised by some and criticized by others, primarily because it appeared to contemporary critics that its emphasis, in spite of its themes, was primarily poetic and not, strictly speaking, philosophical in any really coherent sense: Dr. Johnson, never one to mince words, and possessed, in any case, of views upon the subject which differed materially from those which Pope had set forth, noted dryly (in what is surely one of the most back-handed literary compliments of all time) that "Never were penury of knowledge and vulgarity of sentiment so happily disguised." It is a subtler work, however, than perhaps Johnson realized: G. Wilson Knight has made the perceptive comment that the poem is not a "static scheme" but a "living organism," (like Twickenham) and that it must be understood as such.

Considered as a whole, the Essay on Man is an affirmative poem of faith: life seems chaotic and patternless to man when he is in the midst of it, but is in fact a coherent portion of a divinely ordered plan. In Pope's world God exists, and he is benificent: his universe is an ordered place. The limited intellect of man can perceive only a tiny portion of this order, and can experience only partial truths, and hence must rely on hope, which leads to faith. Man must be cognizant of his rather insignificant position in the grand scheme of things: those things which he covets most — riches, power, fame — prove to be worthless in the greater context of which he is only dimly aware. In his place, it is man's duty to strive to be good, even if he is doomed, because of his inherent frailty, to fail in his attempt. "

I think it means, "Whatever exists, was meant to be."
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Apr, 2013 08:11 am
@McTag,
McTag wrote:


I could guess.

" Epistle I concerns itself with the nature of man and with his place in the universe; Epistle II, with man as an individual; Epistle III, with man in relation to human society, to the political and social hierarchies; and Epistle IV, with man's pursuit of happiness in this world. An Essay on Man was a controversial work in Pope's day, praised by some and criticized by others, primarily because it appeared to contemporary critics that its emphasis, in spite of its themes, was primarily poetic and not, strictly speaking, philosophical in any really coherent sense: Dr. Johnson, never one to mince words, and possessed, in any case, of views upon the subject which differed materially from those which Pope had set forth, noted dryly (in what is surely one of the most back-handed literary compliments of all time) that "Never were penury of knowledge and vulgarity of sentiment so happily disguised." It is a subtler work, however, than perhaps Johnson realized: G. Wilson Knight has made the perceptive comment that the poem is not a "static scheme" but a "living organism," (like Twickenham) and that it must be understood as such.

Considered as a whole, the Essay on Man is an affirmative poem of faith: life seems chaotic and patternless to man when he is in the midst of it, but is in fact a coherent portion of a divinely ordered plan. In Pope's world God exists, and he is benificent: his universe is an ordered place. The limited intellect of man can perceive only a tiny portion of this order, and can experience only partial truths, and hence must rely on hope, which leads to faith. Man must be cognizant of his rather insignificant position in the grand scheme of things: those things which he covets most — riches, power, fame — prove to be worthless in the greater context of which he is only dimly aware. In his place, it is man's duty to strive to be good, even if he is doomed, because of his inherent frailty, to fail in his attempt. "

I think it means, "Whatever exists, was meant to be."


Excellent!

I've been waiting for JTT's statement.
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Apr, 2013 08:20 am
@Ceili,
Ceili wrote:

What? No... Beliefs like taste can never be truly wrong, misguided maybe. God's plan may be true, it may not.. ultimately it's an opinion. You either believe something or you don't.
2+2=4. Is right? It's scientifically correct.
How about 2+2=5? If I believe it to be correct, there's not much you can to dissuade me, but tell me the truth or your version of the truth and explain why my answer is wrong. If I still choose to believe 5 is the right answer - c'est la vie, I'm wrong in your eyes.
Since none of us will ever truly know the truth about god, unlike science or proven theories that are described as an absolute or provable.
A persons religious beliefs may be correct for them, but wrong for you. Nothing about religion is an absolute, unless the believer believes it is so. Yet, it still a belief and not an absolute till proven, and god still remain elusive.
Nothing about what was said before or in this reply has anything to do with destruction. However, if there was a war and the red team won and church goers believed that this was god's plan, who are we to argue. To the victor goes the spoils...
I might think they're full of crap, but that's my opinion, not the word of god or an absolute. Was this god's plan? Who knows?? but to the believers it will always be so.
There is a similar saying in Islam - it's the will of Allah.
It basically comes down to, you, the believer thinking, knowing in their heart of hearts, that god, in his/her infinite wisdom, can see the whole picture and while his/her plan may seem incomprehensible to you, the mere mortal, you have to/must believe that s/he knows best. In other words, Faith.



I think science and faith can go hand in hand in perfect harmony, Ceili.
I recommend you to read The Language of God by Francis Colins, director of National Health Institute (of U.S.). Being blind (like insisting on 2+2=5) is neither correct in science nor in true faith.
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Apr, 2013 07:06 pm
@oristarA,
Ok, maybe 2+2=5 was too simplistic. Have you ever heard of the flat earth society?? It doesn't help that we've proven the earth to be a sphere that circles the sun, some people will not believe it.

I was raised a catholic and went to catholic schools. I have no qualms with science.
However, many Christians don't believe in vast chunks of science. I have cousins who went to christian schools and their education was very different than mine. For example, evolution was not taught in their schools, except for the explanation that is was a misguided theory. They were taught creationism. I doubt they teach that kind of bullshit in china.
There are whole religions that will pray over a diabetic in shock rather than giving medicine and others that refuse inoculations or blood transfusions...
I know science and religion can walk hand in hand, I don't need the book. However if you've got a few million dollars, perhaps you could send a copy to all those that are blind to science. Because it's god's will...
Shite, the leader of S. Africa told his people the best way to avoid catching Aids was to take a shower.. Yup, stupidity abounds.
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