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Is Atheism More Likely To Be True Than Deism?

 
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Fri 31 May, 2013 05:24 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
No, that's not true at all. In the first place, you have an insignificant sample. The people you talk to here do not represent even a tiny fraction of a percent of all the atheists in the United States, let alone the world.

Do all of the theists on this website represent a tiny fraction of the theists in the world? While you parade around about how God is an imaginary figure, and is bullshit, since you do not believe or reject that any Gods exist? You rant on and on about all this clever and cunning nonsense that I am not even sure you actually believe yourself...but because it is like you are actually trying to convince yourself that you do believe it is true, though there is nothing there...

Quote:
I've never accepted the term rejection. That's another typical case of you framing things in your terms, rather than the terms used by the persons to whom you are talking. I can't reject anything unless it's being forced on me. Is that how you see your role in the world, to attempt to force your beliefs on others? Atheism is the lack of a belief, it shouldn't even be described as an "ism.." Sure, there are some idiots who state categorically that there is no god. They do not represent the majority of atheists, and in my experience, don't even represent a significant fraction of atheists. This is just like that time you puked up that bullshit about atheists being willing to believe if they had a sign from god. You never came up with the evidence for that bullshit. I strongly suspect that one or two people had demanded evidence, and you translated that in your fevered imagination into a call for a sign from god.

I have told you before...and I will say it till the day that one of us or both of us are no longer here...I will not link those posts upon principal...simply because one specific time we where debating this...a person who posts here who claims to be an atheist had in fact said that they would accept a miracle as proof or evidence...and I am not sure if you had seen it or personally chose to selectively skip over it on purpose either because you do not respect this person...or because you chose to try to rehash this over and over, just because that is the way that you are...nor do I really care...not everyone has to adhere to your nothingness in order to be an "atheist" and it is pretty typical of you to make it sound as though other atheists are idiots just for actually claiming that no Gods exist...it shows how close-mined you are...least they are convicted in their own thinking...and I am not interested in exposing people in order for you to try to discredit them since you do not happen to agree...and it is not my job or anyone else's to provide proof for a single thing...every single person has the instinctive ability to know what they think and believe about every single thing that they are ever exposed to, and know and understand why...if you have been rendered extinct of this ability it is not my job to try to show you evidence to personally convince your thinking...it is on you, and you alone to go searching for what you deem adequate or sufficient evidence to convince your own thinking either here or there about any single claim that is actually made...no single person is obligated in any such way that you personally view yourself in your own self image to try to convince you or anyone else of anything that another personally thinks or believes...If one wants proof it is solely upon them to go find it...

Quote:
Same thing with this rejection bullshit of yours. You restate what others say in your own terms and then rant about that. You don't know enough atheists to be able to make confident statements about them. Not that you let a little ting like ignorance stand in your way.

But it does not stop you from making rants about theists that you only know a fraction of? Right? Since you neither believe nor reject? Right?

Or are you now going to categorically claim they are are full of BS because of the lack or failure of a God to have ever presented itself, even though you neither claim to believe or have a rejection about any God or Gods right? Paaaallleeeesse....

Pot, Kettle...

Based upon what you have said...you neither know a fraction of atheists, or theists in the World....So why don't you just leave them all alone and go your own way?
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Fri 31 May, 2013 05:31 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
This atheist see no reason at all to grant any of the current major religion belief systems any more credit then the tooth fairy.

So you admit that the tooth fairy has a possibility of existence?

Why not claim that you are a skeptic based upon the rejection, lack, disbelief, lack of evidence of the tooth fairy, and not the "silly concept" of a God or Gods?
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 May, 2013 05:41 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
So you admit that the tooth fairy has a possibility of existence?


Of course you can never proved a negative no matter how silly and a supernatural Jesus and a supernatural tooth fairy is on equal footing.

XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Fri 31 May, 2013 05:43 am
@BillRM,
Why not claim that you are a skeptic based upon the rejection, lack, disbelief, lack of evidence of the tooth fairy, and not the "silly concept" of a God or Gods?
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Fri 31 May, 2013 06:21 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Silly concepts where the silliness is connected to the very concept of the belief in question and the illogic and of course the zero evidence of such supernatural beings existing.now and in the past.

The idea that a rotting human can be brought back to life is at the same level as the tooth fairy collecting children teeth and replacing the teeth with coins.
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Fri 31 May, 2013 06:23 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Straw man. I only rant about the idiot theists who show up here, or the expressed beliefs of theists. I don't assign allegations of beliefs to theists and then rant at them for that. That's what you do with atheists, though.

Don't flatter yourself, i don't rant about you. I ignore 90% or more of the bullshit you spout. Poor Spade, the bad man said something mean about him. As usual, your performance runs from barely coherent to completely incoherent.

I don't care if you link those posts or not. I long ago came to the conclusion that you were peddling bullshit. Anyone asking for a sign from god is not an atheist, and any atheist (or so-called atheist) asking for evidence is not asking for a sign from god. You don't seem to be able to absorb that. Frankly, i've always thought you were lying about it anyway. Spare me the heroic stance, that's bullshit, too. I haven't said that other so-called atheists are idiots for saying that no god exists. I accept that most of the world considers them atheists, although i personally consider them to be anti-theists rather than atheists. A- as a combining form means without, nothing more. Anti- means opposed to or denying, which is what the so-called strong atheists are engaged in.

You certainly are not obliged to prove anything. You certainly also have no refuge if you are dismissed for making claims you can't or won't prove. Once again, i've been convinced from the beginning that you're a liar.
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Fri 31 May, 2013 06:24 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:
Based upon what you have said...you neither know a fraction of atheists, or theists in the World....So why don't you just leave them all alone and go your own way?


Why don't you, you big, loud-mouthed ******* hypocrite.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 May, 2013 06:41 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:

If atheism is actually a belief


stop right there.

Atheism is not a belief.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Fri 31 May, 2013 06:42 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:
If it is not a belief, but a rejection


Atheism is not a rejection, though it does seem like you take it as a personal rejection.
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Fri 31 May, 2013 06:43 am
@BillRM,
I understand what you have said...but it appears as though you do not understand what I have said...so I will break it down for you...

If you believe that these 2 "silly concepts" are on level ground...

Why do you not go around and claim that you are an atheist, or a skeptic predominately because you outright reject the notion of a tooth fairy collecting teeth, and giving children coins? Opposed to claiming to be an atheist or skeptic because of the predominant outright rejection, lack of belief, lack of evidence of an all powerful, knowing, loving God?

Could it be because you really do not believe that they are on level ground? But like to claim that you think that they are to try to make theists look foolish? Although it is you who does not realize the veracity of your very own statements?

I would like to test you on this one....

You certainly have no obligation to do this...but if you truly think that the tooth fairy is on level ground as God...

Would you be willing to prove this is a truthful statement, and put that you are an atheist because of the rejections of the tooth fairy as your signature for one week? And prove it?
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Fri 31 May, 2013 07:02 am
@medium-density,
medium-density wrote:
Accepting that agnosticism is the default position of science with respect to the possibility of most things (including god), shouldn't atheism nevertheless be considered the likelier conclusion when compared to deism?

Sure. Atheists and deists agree in their view of what has been happening in the 13.7 billion years after the Big Bang. Their only difference is that deists postulate a conscious being that created the universe in the beginning of it all, whereas atheists do not. Universe-creating, physical-law-giving consciousness requires a pretty complex being to carry out all the creating and legislating. This kind of being is unlikely to "just happen", and that's putting it mildly. Therefore, atheism is more likely true than deism.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Fri 31 May, 2013 07:14 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:

How could it possibly be?

If atheism is actually a belief...atheism can not be proven just like a God in theism's can not...

You implicitly presume that these are the only choices. Why? Why can't I be an atheist in the same sense that I'm an atoothfairyist, an aleprechaunist, and an aunicornist? I cannot prove, beyond all reasonable doubt, that neither of these entities exists. But I can observe that there's no real evidence for them, lots of evidence that the stories about them were made up, and hence good reason to discard them as "very probably ficticious". That's exactly the way I judge the existence of gods. How is that not atheism, and why isn't my argument a valid reason to be an atheist?
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 31 May, 2013 07:14 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
Straw man. I only rant about the idiot theists who show up here, or the expressed beliefs of theists. I don't assign allegations of beliefs to theists and then rant at them for that. That's what you do with atheists, though.

Don't forget other atheists who are different than you are..."according to your own subjective thinking of course, which you say you neither accept nor reject"

Quote:
I don't care if you link those posts or not. I long ago came to the conclusion that you were peddling bullshit.

Hypocrite...if you did not care...why would you constantly continue to bring it up? Are you convinced it will change, if it is bullshit and is just not there because I am a "liar"?

Quote:
Anyone asking for a sign from god is not an atheist, and any atheist (or so-called atheist) asking for evidence is not asking for a sign from god.

Says you of course...but not because you believe that this is true nor reject it?

Quote:
You don't seem to be able to absorb that. Frankly, i've always thought you were lying about it anyway.

Got it...but you wish to continue to ask me something you are already convinced I am lying about?

Quote:
Spare me the heroic stance, that's bullshit, too. I haven't said that other so-called atheists are idiots for saying that no god exists.

You just said something like sure there are a few idiot atheists who claim that no Gods exist...it was about 3 posts ago...

Quote:
I accept that most of the world considers them atheists, although i personally consider them to be anti-theists rather than atheists.

Personally, as in what you think or believe?

Quote:
A- as a combining form means without, nothing more. Anti- means opposed to or denying, which is what the so-called strong atheists are engaged in.

So you are not a strong one?

Quote:
You certainly are not obliged to prove anything.

Thank you...

Quote:
You certainly also have no refuge if you are dismissed for making claims you can't or won't prove.

I thought you just said I do not have to prove anything?

Quote:
Once again, i've been convinced from the beginning that you're a liar.

Cool...why continue to engage with me then?
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 31 May, 2013 07:25 am
@Thomas,
What would you say if you claim to reject all of these things and God...and I turned it around and asked you to provide me with factual evidence to support all of the claims you have made? Do you think that you could do this? If you think that you could not do this...how are you honestly rejecting anything that you claim you are because of an actual lack of evidence for any single one? That atheists claim they are searching for and use to validate truths....Likewise, how do you think that it would ever be possible for a theist to ever provide evidence for things for a single thing you are already convinced of as being fictitious or made up? And just because an atheist claims that all of these things are on par...does not automatically mean that they are...that is their own subjective thinking, just like a theists beliefs are...
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 May, 2013 07:58 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
I don't "constantly continue to bring it up." This is the first time i've mentioned it in quite a long time. What a little whiner you are. You believe or reject routine is pretty tedious--and it's a perfect example of your incoherence. Once again, i don't continue to bring this up--whiner. This the first time i've mentioned it in a long, long time. Yes, i'm convinced you're lying about it, but this is the first time i've said as much, at least as far as i recall. If you don't know what the word personally means, you really have no business in such a discussion. That's correct, i am not what is called a strong atheist. It's also correct that you don't have to prove anything. If you make a claim, and provide no proof, you should accept that people will tell you that you're bullshitting.

I no more "continue" to engage with you than i "continue" to bring up your big lie. Mostly, i ignore you. Every once in a while, though, i consider it worth the time and effort to point out that you're a bullshit artists who shoots his mouth off about things he knows nothing about.
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Fri 31 May, 2013 08:00 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
What an incredible idiot. Thomas is the only reliable source on what he believes or disbelieves and why. You are truly incoherent.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 31 May, 2013 08:38 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
What an incredible idiot. Thomas is the only reliable source on what he believes or disbelieves and why. You are truly incoherent.

I never said that he was not...all that I did was ask him some questions about what he believes...or does not...that only he could answer...and why I had asked him those specific questions...not anyone else...that is incoherence, that you label me with...and is a straw man...and is border line bigotry...

Not only that...but I had also already posted that this is the way that it appears to me as well concerning everyone in general...then you tried to explain how you neither believe or reject...and you are working against Thomas yourself, because he is the one who said that I presume that these are the only two options, which you are conforming yourself...while claiming I could not possibly know what he does or does not believe...but you are attempting to do this yourself in a subtle way...
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Fri 31 May, 2013 09:01 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:
What would you say if you claim to reject all of these things and God...and I turned it around and asked you to provide me with factual evidence to support all of the claims you have made?


This is what you wrote, dipshit. Thomas is the only source for what he believes and why he believes it. If he says so, that's factual evidence. You truly are clueless.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 31 May, 2013 09:24 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
I don't "constantly continue to bring it up." This is the first time i've mentioned it in quite a long time.

Is it possible that what you believe "constantly", and what I believe "constantly" are different? Or is it not possible because you neither believe or reject?

Quote:
What a little whiner you are.

I'm not whining...I am a very tough, bold, fiery person...

Quote:
You believe or reject routine is pretty tedious--and it's a perfect example of your incoherence. Once again, i don't continue to bring this up--whiner.

Your opinion...Fine with me...I think someone who says that they think I am lying, and then brings it up at least 4 or 5 more times is constantly...not as in everyday...but that is tedious...

Quote:
This the first time i've mentioned it in a long, long time.

Read my one comment up...

Quote:
Yes, i'm convinced you're lying about it, but this is the first time i've said as much, at least as far as i recall.

But the point is why bring it up if you think it is a lie that is not going to change? Either it is not true...or you are just doing it on purpose to bait me...every time you choose to selectively bring it up...rather than get to the root of whatever actually pisses you off about me...that I am not sure you have ever told me...but I have 3 ideas in my mind...

Quote:
If you don't know what the word personally means, you really have no business in such a discussion.

Point out which exact word you are referring so that I can be sure to explain if I know what it means or does not just to be sure we can agree on something...and we can agree if I am lying or not...

Quote:
That's correct, i am not what is called a strong atheist.

Cool...I am glad that you have said that...

Quote:
It's also correct that you don't have to prove anything.

Cool...I am glad that you have said that...

Quote:
If you make a claim, and provide no proof, you should accept that people will tell you that you're bullshitting.

I do accept that people say this to me...Otherwise I would not be here...My only point, is that does not automatically make it truthful...or automatically mean that I am lying about anything...even if others think or believe that this is the truth...because even if someone provides proof about anything in general...I can not see any way that someone else would physically accept one persons proof, as their own proof...and that is my view...that others will have to accept, or reject about me...which you have yet to do...but it is not going to change...

Quote:
I no more "continue" to engage with you than i "continue" to bring up your big lie.

If that is how you justify actually having conversations with me...then there is nothing I can do to ever change that thought you already have...or had as you claim...So again...I am not even going to ever take the time to ever provide this proof...not because I can just do so...but because of your pure dislike for me...and your crass attitude towards me...not only that...like I have said about proof being subjective...even if I was to factually link this person saying they are an atheist....and then factually link this person claiming a miracle would get them to believe....you could just reject it is true...because you are not obligated to accept facts as atheists claim they are actually looking for...and even facts are subjective...so it is just a waste of time that I realized a long time ago...and it truly makes no difference to me if you claim I am a liar....I know what I saw and read...this person does as well...and it makes no difference to me if you subjectively think that if they made this claim...they could not possibly be what you think that they should...or are not....or neither...

Quote:
Mostly, i ignore you.

Why not just do it till we both are gone? Just curious...

Quote:
Every once in a while, though, i consider it worth the time and effort to point out that you're a bullshit artists who shoots his mouth off about things he knows nothing about.

Why? Why would your utter dislike run so deep that you would feel the need to be a thorn in the side like that? What have I actually ever done so wrong to you personally that you have not done so to me personally as well? It does not matter to me if you say that this is what you feel, because I personally do not agree...and think that you are not telling the truth...So now what? This for years and years?

Why would you just not choose to ignore someone you thought was that much of a prick, knowing I would do the same?

I think it is because many of the things you say are not the full story...but I honestly do not wish to dislike you...and I never want my anger, or hate to run that deep...all for nothing...your not that bad of a man...and I just hope that someday you are at least willing to look at one small, minute, positive thing that you think I actually do bring to this website, rather than just a total dislike, and anger, and bitterness...

I can see positives in you that I reflect upon...

You seem to be the most knowledgeable member of this entire website when it comes to history/herstory...
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Fri 31 May, 2013 09:26 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Spare me that believe or reject bullshit. As long as you're parading that incoherence, you needn't expect me to play your stupid question games.
 

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