19
   

Where is the self? How can dualism stand if it's just a fiction?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Feb, 2013 02:51 pm
@MattDavis,
That applies to most things us humans perceive.
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Feb, 2013 02:53 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
I apologize mate…
No need to, Buddy
(that's the term we use; os sometimes "chum" or "pard")


Quote:
…...you are 100% correct that this would not be the way the Buddha has taught…...
I feel acquitted

Quote:
ut I must say I am an upfront or abrupt person...a fiery man at times,
Good for you Spade

Quote:
and that is my own rationalization of how I interpret his teachings...forgive me if I have said it bluntly...
Ah I see; no need to apologize to me but maybe the Buddhists hereabout

Quote:
I think I am going to go for a bit...Because I perceive I have made a few uneasy and this was not my intentions...
Nah don't leave
0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Feb, 2013 02:55 pm
@MattDavis,
Quote:
No agreement is ever ABSOLUTELY reached regarding interpretations of any kind.
Well put Matt, in agreement with the general principle that nothing…….
MattDavis
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Feb, 2013 03:05 pm
@dalehileman,
dalehileman wrote:

Quote:
No agreement is ever ABSOLUTELY reached regarding interpretations of any kind.
Well put Matt, in agreement with the general principle that nothing…….
.... that nothing can be derived without some basic assumptions.
All knowledge requires basic axioms to build up from.
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Feb, 2013 03:12 pm
@MattDavis,
Quote:
…..can be derived without some basic assumptions.
Your take Matt is probably better than mine,

…..is entirely anything while while everything is partly something else,

…...which I omitted 'cause felt too repetitious
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Feb, 2013 03:13 pm
@MattDavis,
I am not sure if you saw this Matt...I did edit it in later...

Would you say your atheism is of a Buddhist or Taoist view? Or another Chinese cultural religion? Or not really either because you tend to stay away from beliefs all together? And try to find your own path? It seems that you do take interest in the self-revelations that Buddhism teaches, no?
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Thu 21 Feb, 2013 03:16 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
There's one simple solution to happiness; be good and kind to everybody and everything.

It takes an effort at action more than meditation.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Feb, 2013 03:19 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I agree mate!
0 Replies
 
MattDavis
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Feb, 2013 03:26 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
My views are primarily based around a desire to understand.
My basic assumptions are always (I hope) subject to revision.
As they stand now I can derive "rationally" an importance for ethical behavior.
So in a way I have placed an a-prior value on understanding and feel as though I can derive from that a value in ethics.
[by value you might also say importance, I mean value in the way it is used in the discussion of ethical philosphy]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiology

So I don't really know how to answer in the specifics regarding each of the religions you mentioned. Many of those religions have practitioners within them who do not share my views. (we've spoken before as to how Buddhism runs the gambit between atheism/pantheism/theism)

On a practical level I am vegan. I attempt not to take the life of another 'self' unless there are very strong extenuating circumstances (like my own or some other's survival).
I see the dangers of treating religion cynically (as we discussed regarding Satanism and Scientology).
Religions serve a purpose, but often those purposes can be corrupted.
MattDavis
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Feb, 2013 03:35 pm
@dalehileman,
dalehileman wrote:

Quote:
…..can be derived without some basic assumptions.
Your take Matt is probably better than mine,
…..is entirely anything while while everything is partly something else,
…...which I omitted 'cause felt too repetitious

I don't know about "better".
The existentialists or fresco could mount a very persuasive argument in regards to what you are getting at about semantic interpretations of reality.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Feb, 2013 03:55 pm
@MattDavis,
Thanks mate...I think that gave me a very clear understanding of how you view yourself...Wink
MattDavis
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Feb, 2013 03:57 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
That applies to most things us humans perceive.
Yes almost surely it does. At least that is my perception. Wink
0 Replies
 
MattDavis
 
  2  
Reply Thu 21 Feb, 2013 04:07 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
I think often veganism is either perceived of or practiced in a "non-humanizing" way.
Let me give you an example of how it isn't (or shouldn't) be.

Last week I drove home from visiting my aunt/uncle/cousins.
I drove past a possum standing in the median. After about 30 seconds of thought, I turned around. Hoping to shew the possum off the road. As I got closer I saw blood pouring out of one of its eyes. From my understanding of medicine I realized this possum has very little chance of survival. The rest of its life will be spent suffering. Even if it could survive this would require massive interventions and efforts that could be better spent on human animals. This is no human's beloved pet. Any possum family it has will be separated from it whether it dies or is "rescued" in some veterinary ICU.
I crushed it's scull.
That was (from my view) the right thing to do. I don't carry a gun. The time it would take to get one would prolong the suffering greatly. I don't even think it is legal for me to discharge a firearm in such a place.
Veganism is not some appeal to ooey gooey feelings about animal sentimentality. If you are vegan sometimes you still have to kill animals, as difficult as that "felt" for me.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Thu 21 Feb, 2013 04:11 pm
@MattDavis,
I can totally empathize with your positions, since you are a vegan...And I can also empathize how hard that actually was for you to do mate....I am truly sorry that you had to make that choice... Sad But I truly do understand why you had done what you did...And I totally understand your reasons why...
IRFRANK
 
  2  
Reply Thu 21 Feb, 2013 04:14 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Imagine what that poor bastard has to put up with.


Now, that is dukkha. Wink
IRFRANK
 
  2  
Reply Thu 21 Feb, 2013 04:20 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
There's one simple solution to happiness; be good and kind to everybody and everything.

It takes an effort at action more than meditation.


A major component of Buddhism is compassion. A major tenant. Meditation leads to a clear mind and right thought that will lead to compassionate actions. If meditation does not change your outlook and resulting actions you are doing it wrong.


0 Replies
 
MattDavis
 
  2  
Reply Thu 21 Feb, 2013 04:20 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Thanks Spade.
It was hard, and I hope right.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Feb, 2013 05:02 pm
@MattDavis,
I had to put a chipmunk out of its misery year before last for the same kind of reason. It had apparently run out in from of a golf cart...and got very badly mauled. It was obvious it could not even move...other than writhe in pain.

I dispatched it by crushing its head. I may have done it as an act of mercy...but I felt like **** for days afterwards.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Feb, 2013 05:03 pm
@IRFRANK,
Quote:
Now, that is dukkha.


Ahh...now I see whatcha mean. Wink
0 Replies
 
MattDavis
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Feb, 2013 05:04 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Thanks for doing that Frank.
Sorry it made you feel bad for days, obviously I think you were right to do it.
0 Replies
 
 

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