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Obama and the Targeted Killing Program: What Would the Godfather Say?

 
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Feb, 2013 02:49 pm
@Berty McJock,
Another main difference was legality, the first Gulf War had the backing of the Security Council.
Berty McJock
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Feb, 2013 02:51 pm
@izzythepush,
hehehe i did mention that..i said senior had a "legitimate" reason. i didn't know the exact details of U.N. resolutions or anything so left it at that.

*edit, just read my post back...i forgot to mention dubyas was illegal
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Fri 8 Feb, 2013 05:16 pm
ALL Checks & Balances must be utilized.

http://peopleint.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/government.jpg
Berty McJock
 
  3  
Reply Fri 8 Feb, 2013 05:27 pm
@H2O MAN,
i'm probably being extremely ignorant. i don't get what your point is.

if you are saying that everything must pass through the proper channels, then that is EXACTLY why this memo is controversial. because it bypasses them all.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 8 Feb, 2013 07:41 pm
@Berty McJock,
You are correct, Obama is attempting to circumvent the constitution.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 12:57 pm
http://www.thesleuthjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Obama-drones.jpg
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 12:59 pm
http://usbacklash.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/obama-secret-drone-strikes.jpg
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 01:05 pm
http://www.mikechurch.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/10-A-Predator-Drone-Obama-Diran-Lyons-612x300.jpg?84cd58
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 01:38 pm
Quote:
There are plenty of problems with President Obama’s targeted killings in the war against terrorism: The policy remains secret in most aspects, involves no judicial review, has resulted in the deaths of innocent civilians, has been employed far from any battlefield and has sparked deep anti-American resentment in countries where we can ill afford it.

But when it comes to the particular legal issue raised in a recently leaked “white paper” from the Justice Department — namely, whether it is legal to kill Americans with drones — one problem looms largest: The policy permits the government to kill its citizens in secret while refusing to acknowledge, even after the fact, that it has done so.

There may be extraordinary occasions when killing a citizen is permissible, but it should never be acceptable for the government to refuse to acknowledge the act. How can we be free if our government has the power to kill us in secret? And how can a sovereign authority be accountable to the people if the sovereign can refuse to own up to its actions?

.
.
The unacknowledged killing of foreign nationals during wartime is disturbing enough, though there may be circumstances in which it is warranted. But in our democracy, it can never be permissible for the president to identify an American citizen for extinction, place him on a “kill list,” authorize a CIA agent or military officer to kill him — and then refuse to admit that it was done. Whether the killing is legal or not, accountability is impossible absent a public statement of responsibility for the act.

Indeed, the Obama administration is opposing lawsuits that challenge Awlaki’s killing and seek disclosure of the documents related to it, in part on the grounds that its role in the killing has never been, and cannot be, acknowledged. If a government of the people and under law means anything, it must mean that the government cannot kill its people in secret and then avoid legal scrutiny by disavowing responsibility.

Administration insiders have hinted that Washington cannot admit that it is directing the drones, even if the world knows it is doing so, because other countries have consented to drone strikes in their territory only on the condition that they go officially unacknowledged. Using lethal force inside another nation’s borders, absent that nation’s consent, is generally a violation of international law, so there is good reason to seek consent. But can an agreement with a foreign country override the president’s constitutional obligation to take American lives only in a publicly acknowledged and legally accountable way?

Obama’s nominee to head the CIA, John Brennan, has put it well: “I think the rule should be that if we’re going to take actions overseas that result in the deaths of people, the United States should take responsibility for that,” he said last fall.

So, President Obama, did you or did you not kill Anwar al-Awlaki?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/president-obama-did-or-did-you-not-kill-anwar-al-awlaki/2013/02/08/0347f4de-70c9-11e2-a050-b83a7b35c4b5_story_1.html

David Cole teaches constitutional law at Georgetown University and is the legal affairs correspondent for the Nation. He is the author of “The Torture Memos: Rationalizing the Unthinkable.”
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 01:42 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Quote:
He is not a saint nor a miracle worker but a politician doing the best he can as head of state.


Of course, that's because you have no problem at all with your leaders committing crimes against humanity and terrorist acts, Lustig. You would have made a superb death camp commandant.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 01:46 pm


The core foundation of our Constitutional Republic is the Rule of Law.
Obama and other elected American officials have shown they feel that
they can operate outside the Rule of Law, this is wrong and it endangers
ALL Americans. Many of Obama's policies circumvent the Rule of Law.

What would the founding fathers say?
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 01:51 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:



The core foundation of our Constitutional Republic is the Rule of Law.
Obama and other elected American officials have shown they feel that
they can operate outside the Rule of Law, this is wrong and it endangers
ALL Americans. Many of Obama's policies circumvent the Rule of Law.

What would the founding fathers say?


the problem with your argument is that this government has been abusive and corrupt for a long time, who fills the chairs has mattered little. also, Obama never told us what his core values are but we elected him anyway, so we have to look at our own irresponsible action too.
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 02:17 pm
@hawkeye10,

There is no problem with my argument, you just chose to read into it what you wanted.

We told you of Obama's core values... we didn't vote for him... we didn't elect him.
The liberal media never questioned Obama's core values and neither did the dumbmasses.
The dumbmasses elected this person twice and they need to accept responsibility for their actions.

And, it makes all the difference in the world who is president today and who voted for him.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  2  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 02:23 pm
@hawkeye10,
If someone is actively plotting to kill U.S. American citizens he is fair game whether he is foreign or U.S.. Cops do it quite often.
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 02:23 pm
@RABEL222,
Are you saying Obama is fair game?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 04:42 pm
@RABEL222,
Quote:
If someone is actively plotting to kill U.S. American citizens he is fair game whether he is foreign or U.S..


That's quite the statement, Rabel. Where does that put the US vis a vis the ten million plus murdered by that same US?

Quote:
Cops do it quite often.


Wow!!!!! cops that are judge, jury and executioner, and rule of law guy that you are, you think this is just dandy.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 09:28 pm
@izzythepush,
Well, I (and if your honest, you too) don't see everyone's opinion as equally valid.

Some people's opinions are wrong/stupid/self-serving.

You choose to only tolerate opposing opinions when they oppose conservative opinions, not your own. When folks oppose your opinions, they are wrong (or worse).
Finn dAbuzz
 
  3  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 09:37 pm
@Berty McJock,
The notion that Bush invaded Iraq to right his father's failure, is foolish.

First of all, Bush Sr. doesn't think he failed. Neither do I. He didn't need his son to get the bastard he missed. He could have gotten him, he chose not to

Secondly there was a very substantive reason for invading Iraq that was well beyond a son finishing a job for his father. Reasonable minds can disagree whether of not that reason was legitimate or wise, but it wasn't so silly as you and other suggest. It had little or nothing to do with family vanity.

The difference between Bush the Elder and Bush the Younger had very little to do with whether or not Saddam needed to be taken down, it had to do with the difference in a foreign policy based on realism vs one based on idealism.

After 9/11 W was convinced big and bold actions on the world stage were necessary. Before 9/11, he was a realist, just like his Dad.

0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  3  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 09:38 pm
@izzythepush,
We don't all agree on the definition of "legality."

By our laws, the Iraq invasion was legal.

izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Feb, 2013 02:37 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
It was completely illegal, it did not have the backing of the security council. There's no ifs and buts about it. War is an international, not domestic event.

What you're saying is that America is above the law, and should be allowed to exterminate as many Moslems as it wants to. That may work out as long as you're the dominant power, but I'm sure China will take it to mean they're above the law too when their turn comes around.
0 Replies
 
 

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