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Does an ‘individual’ word have meaning…?

 
 
jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Dec, 2017 07:13 pm
@Krumple,
"For everything there is a season." Here's history according to me... Out of Egypt we hear the words "go forth and populate the earth" and the law was condensed and made transportable. At the time of Christ the law was further condensed to two sentences (Matthew 22:36-40) and man could venture out with law only in his heart but still intact. And here we are today... As for purposeful and a reason and questioning that which is and that which should never be. Here's the "State of the Union." 50% of american's have one form or another of a chronic degenerative disease. We lose topsoil at alarming rates and we pollute our waters. Not to mention the crazy notion man is going out into space and colonize another planet. Now what is going on here?
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Dec, 2017 07:25 pm
@jerlands,
jerlands wrote:

"For everything there is a season." Here's history according to me... Out of Egypt we hear the words "go forth and populate the earth" and the law was condensed and made transportable. At the time of Christ the law was further condensed to two sentences (Matthew 22:36-40) and man could venture out with law only in his heart but still intact. And here we are today... As for purposeful and a reason and questioning that which is and that which should never be. Here's the "State of the Union." 50% of american's have one form or another of a chronic degenerative disease. We lose topsoil at alarming rates and we pollute our waters. Not to mention the crazy notion man is going out into space and colonize another planet. Now what is going on here?


In a small community it is easy to call someone out in the village who is being a jerk polluting the village lake, killing the fish or ruining the water used on the fields. It is easy to monitor a small group to make sure people are respecting everyone else within the community.

When you have thousands of corporations who buy off political leaders to turn a blind eye to them dumping their waste into streams and rivers then the problem becomes a secret. The common person has no clue what is going on. If people are unaware of the damage then they would never even consider doing something. But now we are at a point, how do you do something? You want your Iphone but don't care that there are children who are slaves who mine the minerals used to make the circuit boards in the phone. Most people don't know that so how can they do anything about a problem they are unaware of?

People get murdered for challenging political leaders or large corporations. They mysteriously end up dead. I'm not saying it always happens but to suggest that would never happen is just as naive as saying it will happen to you if you try.

It isn't that we need a "holy" book to get us back on track. We don't need to be saved by religion to fix these problems. To suggest that we do, is just absurd.

We don't fix this problem by going to the corporations and pointing out their crimes.

Instead we need to completely change the way in which government works. We need to remove the ability to sanction funds. It is the core system that is at fault, not capitalism. It is the government. It creates all the problems and blames everything else besides itself.

Pretty much all our current problems are due to government in some form or another. And you can't turn to the government to solve them. They will just smile and nod, tell you a few heart warming words to make you go back home to your bed meanwhile continue doing the same crap.

A total and complete governmental reform is needed.
jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Dec, 2017 07:38 pm
@Krumple,
What we face today is a dilemma and I believe that's so because we make allegiance with other than the truth. Ghandi said something to the effect "heal yourself and you heal the world." We probably need to start simply by recognizing what is right and what is wrong. Now that I'm sure is a topic unto itself.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Dec, 2017 08:02 pm
@jerlands,
jerlands wrote:

What we face today is a dilemma and I believe that's so because we make allegiance with other than the truth. Ghandi said something to the effect "heal yourself and you heal the world." We probably need to start simply by recognizing what is right and what is wrong. Now that I'm sure is a topic unto itself.


I can show you how that is absurd reasoning.

Religion is wrong.

So you might as well toss out that notion.

I believe all religion is out dated. It served its purpose in the past but now it is no longer needed.

Just like technology, how many people still use land line phones? How many people still use horses to go into town to pick up some groceries?

I think we have gotten to the point where we are outgrowing all religion. In some cases it not only doesn't help solve our problems but in some cases it makes our problems worse. It needs to be shed. Time to move on. Time to progress past superstitious beliefs.
jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Dec, 2017 08:13 pm
@Krumple,
Quote:
Religion is wrong.

The bible has had too great an impact on our civilization to be simply shrugged off. Why it exists is something that needs some consideration. As for outdated.. a phenomena I perceive is the laws of creation echo persistently.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2017 08:06 am
@jerlands,
You are correct in thinking that there is a psychological need for some sort of 'religious belief' in the majority of humans. You yourself demonstrate it. It is the 'price' we pay as a species with the ability to 'plan ahesd' with its associated concepts of 'fate' and 'purpose' and 'control'.
However, as Krumple says, such a need often has pernicious social consequences which we can now more easily appreciate due to global communications. So whether religion is 'a cognitive virus' (Dawkins) or an opiate (Marx) we have an intellectual resposibility to see it for its fictional status lest we give succour to fanatics who think otherwise.
jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2017 11:24 am
@fresco,
Quote:
So whether religion is 'a cognitive virus' (Dawkins) or an opiate (Marx) we have an intellectual resposibility to see it for its fictional status lest we give succour to fanatics who think otherwise.

There's miles of piles and files of what people have said, most of it crap and people do have free will to choose... it's what evolution is about. Anyway, the question I asked was "why does the bible exist?" I proposed it is evidence itself of "error incarnate" because it's either a good thing for humankind or a bad thing for humankind.
jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2017 11:39 am
@fresco,
"Wisdom" is the ability to select beneficially.
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2017 02:28 pm
@jerlands,
jerlands wrote:
Anyway, the question I asked was "why does the bible exist?" I proposed it is evidence itself of "error incarnate" because it's either a good thing for humankind or a bad thing for humankind.


Well like anything, it can be used for evil or used for good. But the majority of the time it is used for justifying evil. But that sounds harsh or negative. Christianity has gotten better, more relaxed on such behavior. But Islam is a whole other beast. It is still used to justify murder and the suppressing of people.

There are good aspects to christian thought though. There are certain individuals who would become incredibly evil if you lift the veil. Religion keeps them in check because they are incapable of adopting empathy for other people. So they need the fear of some god's wrath to keep them from becoming absolute assholes. But like I have already mentioned, it is also used to justify the actions of some other types of assholes.

So I can't honestly say if we would be better off without it or not. It's so hard to actually see the impact it would have if everyone were to abandon these superstitious concepts.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2017 02:29 pm
@jerlands,
The bible, like any other 'holy writ' exists because a physical manifestation of 'eternal word magic' can be socially useful especially when its interpretation is used to validate social power structures like male chauvinism. It is a sub aspect any 'authoritative text' being used as a form of centralized control.
From an ontological point of view, 'existence' is always relative to ' contextual utility'. If you look at the demise of 'the existence of the aether' in science, that will demonstrate the point. Nothing has existential status in its own right.
As I implied before, humans are animals saddled with a concept of 'consequences of their actions'. Hence their natural primate behavior is countered by a veneer of social rules. What better 'authority' for such rules is
'devine authority' , especially when obedience to a divinity secures escape from the 'void of death' or from 'purposelessness of one's existence'.
jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2017 02:35 pm
@fresco,
Quote:
Nothing has existential status in its own right.

So.. what you're suggesting is everything lives in a symbiotic relationship?
jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2017 02:43 pm
@Krumple,
Quote:
the majority of the time it is used for justifying evil

War existed far before western civilization. You've heard the phrase... man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest?
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2017 02:44 pm
@jerlands,
No. I am saying that there are no 'things' other than with respect to their relationships with human needs. 'Things' require 'thingers'
jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2017 02:49 pm
@Krumple,
Quote:
It's so hard to actually see the impact it would have if everyone were to abandon these superstitious concepts.

There's a couple different forms of intelligence... there's cerebral intelligence, logical reasoning based on observation and there's innate intelligence, that which has been acquired over evolutionary course and usually refers to biological functions but also might be referred to as "intelligence of the heart" or intuition.
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2017 02:51 pm
@jerlands,
jerlands wrote:

Quote:
the majority of the time it is used for justifying evil

War existed far before western civilization. You've heard the phrase... man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest?


I'm not specifically talking about war. I didn't want to get into specifics because it has been so broadly used to justify murder. Like the Salem Witch trials for example. Who honestly in this day believes that magic is real? Yet dozens of women were murdered over the idea that they were "witches" and that evil in the christian ideology. Therefore it's justifiable to murder them. So where is the real evil here? It's on behalf of the religious people murdering these "witches".
jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2017 02:51 pm
@fresco,
Quote:
No. I am saying that there are no 'things' other than with respect to their relationships with human needs. 'Things' require 'thingers'

So man is the center of the universe?
jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2017 02:55 pm
@Krumple,
Quote:
Yet dozens of women were murdered over the idea that they were "witches" and that evil in the christian ideology.

Someone using a gun to kill another doesn't necessarily determine that the gun is an evil thing.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2017 02:57 pm
@jerlands,
jerlands wrote:

Quote:
Yet dozens of women were murdered over the idea that they were "witches" and that evil in the christian ideology.

Someone using a gun to kill another doesn't necessarily determine that the gun is an evil thing.


Did I say that it was? I'm saying when a text makes a claim that a person who uses witchcraft should be killed, allows them to justify murdering other people based on this premise. It is the catalyst to their actions. It holds the justification for them.

A gun doesn't hold any "holy" doctrine on how it should be used and on whom it should be used. If it did, it would be just as evil as the text.
jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2017 03:03 pm
@Krumple,
Quote:
A gun doesn't hold any "holy" doctrine on how it should be used and on whom it should be used

Interpretation... how we view things, what we gather from our sources and how we put that into context. The Christian doctrine wasn't to blame for the Salem Witch Trials but man was.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2017 03:09 pm
@jerlands,
Too shallow. The thing man calls 'universe' (which is constantly shifting in possible properties) is thinged by man according to his needs. Thingers (aka thinKers aka lanuagers) bestow 'thinghood' on aspects of their selectively segmented 'world'.
 

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