4
   

Is the translation correct?

 
 
Reply Sat 12 Jan, 2013 09:33 am

Here is a translation:

Kongming went on:"I have thought of another possibility that might well save the ritual gifts of sheep and wine as we transfer our lands and render up the seals of state..."

What Kongming wanted to express was:"There is a possibility: we don't need to offer the ritual gifts of sheep and wine and we don't need to transfer our lands and render up the seals of state."

But this translation seems to give us the impression that Kongming said ""I have thought of another possibility that when we transfer our lands and render up the seals of state, we don't need to offer the ritual gifts of sheep and wine..."

It is very different. Have I got the translation correctly?
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Type: Question • Score: 4 • Views: 1,019 • Replies: 13
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View best answer, chosen by oristarA
PUNKEY
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jan, 2013 10:56 am
Simply means:
I have thought up another idea that might help us save the ritual gifts . . . .

dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jan, 2013 12:50 pm
@oristarA,
Quote:
Have I got the translation correctly?
If by "the translation" you mean the one in color, then no. It conveys the impression that the transfer is inevitable
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jan, 2013 12:56 pm
From an initial reading of the section of "Three Kingdoms" where this is from, I suspect what is contemplated is not merely the ritual gifts that accompany the transfer of power and land, but what they signify, namely the transfer itself and the submission that it would accompany.

Oristar, I have told you many times, it will help if you actually say where you get these texts from! I had to Google it. I do not expect you will listen to me however.


dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jan, 2013 01:13 pm
@contrex,
Con I'm impressed by your dedication and alacrity. However it also reveals a certain unnecessary resentfulness that we might profitably address, say, in a separate thread
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jan, 2013 01:29 pm
@dalehileman,
dalehileman wrote:
unnecessary


That is the only thing to discuss, and since my mind id already made up, it would be pointless, if even wanted to, which I don't.


dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jan, 2013 01:48 pm
@contrex,
Good one Con, you've made my entire day
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jan, 2013 03:07 pm
@dalehileman,
dalehileman wrote:

Good one Con, you've made my entire day


I didn't type it very well...
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jan, 2013 04:55 pm
@contrex,
I've often thought spellcheckers ought to return alternatives to uncommon terms like "id" or "ids" but it has always appalled me for instance that "isd" isn't recognized as misspelling of "is," since it's such an obvious choice with the "d" next to the "s"

I frequently gripe about edit routines, wonder sometimes if the programmers who write them use a regular keyboard
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oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jan, 2013 09:18 pm
@PUNKEY,
PUNKEY wrote:

Simply means:
I have thought up another idea that might help us save the ritual gifts . . . .




Yeah, only sve the ritual gifts of sheep and wine, but the transfer of the lands and the seals of state is inevitable, which is not what the original Chinese text conveys.
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jan, 2013 09:21 pm
@dalehileman,
dalehileman wrote:

Quote:
Have I got the translation correctly?
If by "the translation" you mean the one in color, then no. It conveys the impression that the transfer is inevitable


That is: Kongming's idea could noly save the sheep and the wine, but the transfer of the lands and the seals of state was inevitable.

So the translation is not correct.
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jan, 2013 09:28 pm
@contrex,
contrex wrote:

From an initial reading of the section of "Three Kingdoms" where this is from, I suspect what is contemplated is not merely the ritual gifts that accompany the transfer of power and land, but what they signify, namely the transfer itself and the submission that it would accompany.

Oristar, I have told you many times, it will help if you actually say where you get these texts from! I had to Google it. I do not expect you will listen to me however.


I could not get a clear picture from you.
Sheep and wine can be saved, land and seal not?

As for the full context, don't you think that if I revealed that the source was from the world-class translator, many members here would be infected and thus lose the courage to judge it objectively?


roger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jan, 2013 09:36 pm
@oristarA,
Oh, come on, oristar. Nobody around here is going to be impressed with authority.
0 Replies
 
contrex
  Selected Answer
 
  2  
Reply Sun 13 Jan, 2013 02:42 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:

I could not get a clear picture from you.
Sheep and wine can be saved, land and seal not?


I suggest that possibly* mentioning the ritual gifts is an elegant or oblique or poetic way of referring to the surrender and transfer of power and land from which the gifts are inseparable.

Consider the following. In many Western societies, a ritual gift, often a ring, is given at a wedding ceremony. If a man in a old-fashioned story faces being forced to marry a certain woman, and when the wedding draws near, he says "I may not have to give Mary a ring." he probably does not mean he could somehow marry her without giving her a ring; he means the unwanted marriage might be avoided.

oristarA wrote:
As for the full context, don't you think that if I revealed that the source was from the world-class translator, many members here would be infected and thus lose the courage to judge it objectively?


It is a trivial matter to find out his name by doing an exact-text Google search. In any case the name of the "world-class translator" is unknown outside the Western sinological sphere, and the idea of anyone being infected with fear by his fame is (I venture to suggest) a nonsensical one, at least outside China.

*I believe that the question that you asked is not an English question, it is a historical question. The answer you seek cannot be decoded from the text fragment you provided.



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