Got Aids Yet

I am a Christian, and I do not hate gays.

What I do hate is sin, fatal diseases, and lingering premature death.

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Jim wrote:

I am a Christian, and I do not hate gays.

What I do hate is sin, fatal diseases, and lingering premature death.

Hmmmm...just out of curiosity do you smoke or drink alcohol? Wink

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Portal Star wrote:

Walter Hinteler wrote:
I'm just wondering, why all the Christians here in Europe say continuously, God doesn't hate anybody ...

Because they fought holy wars for the past 100 decades. (And learned their lessons.)

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Hobitbob -

I reserve the right to smoke one or two cigars a year. As for alcohol, I work in Saudi Arabia. Alcohol is strictly mamnua (forbidden) here.

But I can't help but ponder the intent behind your question. A little tobacco or a little alcohol can enhance your life. I'm not aware the same thing can be said for any incurable disease.

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Holy wars, Portal Star, were led by Europeans between 1095, when the first Crusade was launched, and 1291, when the Latin Christians were finally expelled from their bases in Syria (Six times, altogether, a holy war happened)

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all in the name of establishing a Moral Theocracy...

Despite the Bush administration trying to do away with a Moral Theocracy in Afghanistan...

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I'm tellin' ya, there isn't as many of these wackos as the media would have you believe! Yes, they are morons, but no, there are not a lot of them out there. I bet more gay people got married in the past month than there are vocal idiots like this.

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Quote:

What they did to Jesus, you see, is a perfect symbol for this problem, and it is probably what the entire Jesus proposal is concerned with - the madness and brutality people wage against each other.

umbagog

Happy to have you here, your posts are a treat. Dennis Potter, the Brit writer described the cross as a symbol of the horrid uses to which good timber could be put.

These people are, as others have said above, a small subset of worldwide Christianity, and I think they are surely the ugliest component. Though not exclusively to be found in America, that is where exist in greatest number and, most importantly, where they have the greatest political power. A recent 60 Minutes show described the Christian Right as now the most powerful influence on the Republican Party. I believe that is very likely true. More unfortunately, there is a symbiosis (perhaps temporary, perhaps not) between this block and others on the American right - armageddon is a happy time for weapons manufacturers.

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Here is one phrase I just don't want to hear anymore: "The bible says Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve." That pap is as tired as "Where's the beef?"

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cavfancier wrote:

Here is one phrase I just don't want to hear anymore: "The bible says Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve." That pap is as tired as "Where's the beef?"

Yeah, I'm tired of that, too. I just wish that the gay issue wasn't an issue anymore. When women couldn't vote, women's rights were a bug issue... I just hope we can get past this gay rights issue the same way... change things for the better, and move on. I know women's rights aren't 100% where they should be, but they are much better than a century ago.

I'm always suspicious of the new denominations that spring up in Christianity. My sister goes to a Church of God, or something, and they truely believe that every other religion is a CULT! And what is this Victory church I keep hearing about???

I prefer the ways of Buddhism, myself. I hope I spelled that right. lol

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Jim wrote:

Hobitbob -

I reserve the right to smoke one or two cigars a year. As for alcohol, I work in Saudi Arabia. Alcohol is strictly mamnua (forbidden) here.

But I can't help but ponder the intent behind your question. A little tobacco or a little alcohol can enhance your life. I'm not aware the same thing can be said for any incurable disease.

Alcohol and tobbacco are the primary casues of liver and lung cancer. Both are frequently incurable diseases.
Lets not forget that HIV, which I assume is the disease you are thinking of, is more prevalent in the heterosexual community than in the homosexual community (mainly because of the larger precentage of heterosexuals in the population), so your attempt to agree with these neanderthals that it is a "punishment" for being gay shows that you are perhaps operating on their level. How sad for you.

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Jim wrote:

I am a Christian, and I do not hate gays.

What I do hate is sin, fatal diseases, and lingering premature death.

This is the comment I was responding to. I was teasing you about the hating sin, since various denominations consider smoking or drinking to be a sin.
As for your attempt to equate homosexuality with AIDS, I can only wonder if you are truly this uninformed about HIV, or if you are merely one of the narrow minded, hateful "Christians" like the ones this thread has called attention to?

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L.R.R.Hood wrote:

I just wish that the gay issue wasn't an issue anymore. When women couldn't vote, women's rights were a bug issue... I just hope we can get past this gay rights issue the same way.

I would like to think "we can get past this gay rights issue issue" in a much more humane way. Both of these issues should be a source of shame for the American Public.

BTW- The 19th Amendment wasn't ratified until 1920. There is a terrific film playing on HBO about some of the main players in the movement (Alice Paul and Lucy Burns) called; Iron Jawed Angels. I respectfully urge everyone who isn't already familiar with these ladies to see this film.

http://www.hbo.com/films/ironjawedangels/img/history/506x316_slideshow_22.jpg

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Virginia is for uptight rednecks:
We don't want them here!

Quote:

Stay Out Of Virginia' Gays Told
by 365Gay.com Newscenter Staff

Posted: March 11, 2004 12:01 a.m. ET

(Richmond, Virginia) Legislation tightening Virginia's Affirmation of Marriage Act to prevent the state from recognizing civil unions is on its way to the desk of Gov. Mark R. Warner after being approved by the Senate Wednesday.

The Affirmation of Marriage Act was passed in 1997, but Republicans said it was so narrowly worded that it did not cover civil unions or similar partnerships that are legal in other states.

The additional legislation, sponsored by Del. Robert Marshall (R-Prince William) adds language to the 1997 law to ban civil unions and other partnership contracts "purporting to bestow the privileges and obligations of marriage."

It passed the Senate by a veto-proof margin of 27-10. The bill already had passed the House, 79-18.

Sen. Richard Saslaw (D-Fairfax County) said the legislation means Virginia is heading in the wrong direction and warned that companies may avoid moving to a state where their employees do not feel welcome.

"We're telling these people who happen to be gay, essentially, 'Stay out of Virginia,"' Saslaw said.

"'We want to make it as inhospitable as possible for you all to live in this state.' I don't know how else you can describe this bill. No more, no less. 'Get out."'

Saslaw pointed to Maryland where the legislature killed a similar measure last week, and California where Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has said he supports civil unions.

"Once again, we'll be at the back end of history," he said, referring to Virginia's reluctance to accept interracial marriages in the 1960s.

Sen. Janet Howell, D-Fairfax County, said she has been contacted by residents concerned about the impact on businesses relocating to Virginia and on successful gay professionals moving out. She questioned the motives of the bill's supporters.

"What I can't figure out is, what are people afraid of?" she asked. "As someone who's been married for 37 years, I've never, ever been afraid of people who loved each other or committed to each other and wanted to take care of each other, and I think that's what civil unions are all about."

The Virginia legislature also has passed a resolution this year urging Congress to propose amending the U.S. Constitution to define marriage as a union between a man and a woman.

Another measure that would have allowed employers to offer health insurance benefits to gay domestic partners died in a Senate committee after barely passing the House of Delegates.

©365Gay.com® 2004

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This whole issue still unbelievable to me which, I suppose, is the problem. Neither side can wrap their minds around the other side's opinion. At least that's the way it is for the majority of either side.

The Massachusetts legislature has voted to pass an amendment - no news on it's final language, but they are going to propose a limitation to gay marriage to be voted on in the future (2006?).

I still don't understand why this is something that can be taken this far. How can we stand on religious tenants to pass an amendment that prohibits personal freedom when that freedom doesn't actually hurt anyone else?

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I'm there with you, K. What's happening is nothing less than immoral.

Organized religion remains the single most dangerous threat to true morality. It's about fear and control. Fear of differences; controlling those who are different.

Ironically, America (theoretically) represents embracing those differences, but it takes true leadership to remind people of that concept, and our current leadership is in bed with religious fundamentalists and, unable to run on a legitimate record, intends to ride to re-election on the backs of an unempowered, underrepresented, discriminated minority.

It's happened before and we have been able to rise to the occasion. People who abhor discrimination and who truly understand the essence of freedom and equality, so basic to America, must rise up again in defense of our decent, hard-working, patriotic brothers and sisters who want exactly what we all want - a shot at happiness - and who just happen to be gay.

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Agreed kickycan. The main reason for my posting this is so people understand it is the few idiots who spew this hatred. Even true Christians who do not support gay marriages, would wish such a thing. The last thing that this sort of sign or opinion needs to do is to bring more issues of hatred between the two groups. There needs to be open communication to gain an understanding between the two groups. Thoughts like these cause the two opposing views to become more emotional and close up rather than to gain a respectful understanding of each other's viewpoints.

Excellent points angie. Just because some one is Christian does not mean they are not supportive of gay marriage. I have been reading much lately and know of some Christian churches in light of the SJC in Massachusetts are meeting to discuss how to update wedding vows for possible future gay marriages.

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Yes Link, there are indeed Christian churches that support gay marriage. One can always discern such a church by the "open and affirmation" message on their notice boards.

As I think I said above, Jesus Christ NEVER spoke against homosexuality. He embraced all diversity. He did, of course, speak out passionately and on a regular basis against the hypocricym materialism, and arrogant, controlling nature of organized religion. The far-right extreme fundamentalist Christian sects we hear from in the news these days, IMO, don't have a clue what it means to be a true Christian.

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I'm against being gay. I'm not just against gay rights--I am against being gay. I think that's the most contraversial way I can think to phrase that. Also, if I was gay I wouldn't want any rights, nor would I deserve them, so why should real gays be treated any better than my hypothetically gay self?

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I can see now where the 40 IQ pt drop has affected you SCoates..:-)

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