How can something come from nothing?

...."the scarecrow" being evoked by fresco's "lets see if you've got a brain"...

No, the second requires stamina !

Nope. My "scarecrow" remark came from my earlier remark that apparently you think you are the Wiz (or something like it)...and I used it to suggest that only someone without a brain would buy into that nonsense.

Back atcha.

Have a HAPPY NEW YEAR, Fresco. Hope 2013 is rewarding for you...and for everyone else here.

But they do have a brain Frank. It is not unlike those brains that buy into golf. Or giant marrow competitions. Wine tasting. Lady's fashions. Economic savvy.

It is that sort of brain which is intensely interested in self-improvement, do-gooding and high principles. And it pays for those who can stay the course as fresco's expressions of self-satisfaction, when they can be teased out of him, show clearly enough. Although I suspect that he hasn't reached the salubrious dining tables and intimate "one on one" tutorial rooms of the better sort of ivory tower yet which is where the real gravy is located and from where are issued pretty slips of paper, which are tickets to the higher echelons of the political system, to those who respond appropriately to its supervision.

OK. I don’t know where “belief” came into it. I would say if you think that it cannot be true belief if it leads to these types of behavior then, no, belief cannot be pretentious. If you don’t take that point of view then it seems it can be pretentious.

For me since philosophy is a cognitive activity and belief is primal and principally an affective activity they are not related in many ways. So my test would be if there can be pretentious love, pretentious fear, or pretentious sadness then there can be pretentious belief, otherwise no.

I was going to use the term “referenced guessing” as in a referenced paper. It was just that I couldn’t get the gentle philosophy dig in with that phrasing.
For me any pretention comes with the concept that one person’s thoughts are philosophy the thoughts of the “Great Unwashed” are of little or no consequence.

The reason I “lightly” hold that belief is because in my various careers one constant has been having to make sense of very complicated information to the point of being able to teach it or apply it to real world problems. In my careers I cannot remember looking at something and being completely stumped in making sense of the material. Sometime it took time and effort but it was never impossible. I have read “philosophy”, both from experts and others commenting on those experts that was absolutely inscrutable to me. Others, after much head scratching, turned out to be saying simple things in seemingly the most unintelligible way possible. The conclusion one is supposed to draw seems to be just how cognitively far above the masses the writer is rather than providing any meaningful or useful concepts.

When I was seriously researching mythology/religion I found people like Nietzsche, Schopenhauer, Hinriech Zimmer Jr., Otto Rank, Jung, etc., helpful and could never figure out why Rank and Jung aren’t considered philosophers by most people.

Based on that sentiment I am surprised this thread doesn’t require a $5, two drink minimum!

Or perhaps you can only experience “ultimate reality” through the affective not the cognitive domain. This is probably why it is the artists (of all types) of the culture that are traditionally the leaders and interpreters of any brave new worlds. Only very much latter do the philosophers show up to give the brain’s take on things.

Can you still get two drinks for $5 somewhere?

Stop salivating. That is $5 plus you must order at least two drinks. Didn't they used to have nightclubs in the old country?

Aren't we fortunate to have been beamed into idiotville?

In the area of religion...or where an individual is speculating about the Ultimate REALITY...beliefs are merely guesses being disguised by the use of the word "belief."

"I believe there are no gods"...is a guess about an unknown that the guesser wants to disguise for some reason.

"I believe there IS a GOD"...is a guess about an unknown that the guesser wants to disguise for some reason. In the latter case, the guess is most likely made to give the GUESS more substance than it is due. That appears to be why guessers who guess there is a GOD always demand respect for their guesses.

Why not simply say what you really mean to say...rather than trying to pretty it up. And if it requires more words than just two (reference guessing)...then use more than two. English has plenty of words to spare...more than any other language now in existence.

What do you really mean?

More than two words, Zarathustra...and you really didn't say whatever it is you were trying to say.

You ought really to consider being direct.

3 'user ignored's' post-post?

LOL.......TROLLS!

I never ignore anyone, Mark. And I strongly suspect neither do you.

But the pretense is interesting to watch!

Belief is affective, in the sense of the religious/mythological context of the term. No-one comes to belief rationally and logically any more than one falls in love that way or hates that way.

Before you start picking your peaches before they are fuzzed up good; I am not religious, so am not going to get fired up about anything regarding that. I also don’t frequent the site often enough to participate in one of the years long threads were everyone says the same things to each other over and over again about how all things evil are rooted in religion. So you will need to find someone else to play A2k games with. Thanks for the offer though.

Ah, been 'Frank'd', I see:)

Have him on ignore... his word games are highly boorish and utterly thread-disruptive.
Not taking sides, just observing