How can something come from nothing?

@Zarathustra,

Quote:

Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5214796)
Belief is affective, in the sense of the religious/mythological context of the term. No-one comes to belief rationally and logically any more than one falls in love that way or hates that way.

Before you start picking your peaches before they are fuzzed up good; I am not religious, so am not going to get fired up about anything regarding that. I also don’t frequent the site often enough to participate in one of the years long threads were everyone says the same things to each other over and over again about how all things evil are rooted in religion. So you will need to find someone else to play A2k games with. Thanks for the offer though.

No problem, Z.

You have provided a needed function...and I thank you on behalf of the people who use the lesson your just taught.

Ya know...the ones who don't have a reasonable response to a particular post, but don't want to acknowledge that. They can use some of the ideas you came up with here. They are good!

0 Replies

@mark noble,

Quote:

Re: Zarathustra (Post 5214830)
Ah, been 'Frank'd', I see:)

Have him on ignore... his word games are highly boorish and utterly thread-disruptive.
Not taking sides, just observing

Yup...still pretense, Mark. It is really funny to suppose anyone thinks he is really selling that particular oil.

0 Replies

@ripple,

Quote:

for example the creation of the universe

So you assume the universe came from nothing.

Eternity was in place long before the universe. What ever created the universe was something. Eternity does not know time. Process was created. What created creation? What created distance, movement, reality, and consciousness. What was, is, and will be (eternity) on the other side of reality is truth which we don't comprehend. This creation is the process created to transform eternity to infinity. My question to you: Is creation temporary but necessary?

1 Reply

@Looking4Truth,

Looking4Truth wrote:

Quote:
for example the creation of the universe

So you assume the universe came from nothing.

Eternity was in place long before the universe. What ever created the universe was something. Eternity does not know time. Process was created. What created creation? What created distance, movement, reality, and consciousness. What was, is, and will be (eternity) on the other side of reality is truth which we don't comprehend. This creation is the process created to transform eternity to infinity. My question to you: Is creation temporary but necessary?

The universe has no beginning as it has no end so if you can't find a place that's the beginning how the hell can you subscribe to creation... impossible.

1 Reply

@tenderfoot,

By saying the universe has no beginning, you say there was no "big bang". I agree that there was no big bang. I disagree that the universe had no beginining. The universe is the essence of creation. Creation had to have been created. Time, distance, matter, mass, and consciousness of these created dementions had to have started somewhere. Before the measurements and limits of reality had to have been that which was, is, and always will be (eternity). So why did reality come into being from this "before time" eternity? There would only be one purpose for our experiences (history). It was to transform eternity into infinity by using a temporary, yet seemingly endless to those in it, reality. We didn't come from a big bang. We are headed to a big bang. Just be, wait, and see. After all, in reality, that's all we can do.

1 Reply

@Looking4Truth,

I do not necessarily agree with tenderfoots assertion that "the universe has no beginning"...(I also suspect it doesn't, but it MAY have)...but I disagree just as strongly with you.

You are gratuitously calling "the universe" a creation...and then saying "therefore it has to have a creator."

That is begging the question...big time.

Tenderfoot cannot substantiate his assertion: The universe has no beginning"...and you cannot substantiate "the universe is a creation."

The universe MAY be eternal and infinite (MAY not have a beginning)...or it MAY be a creator. I don't know which it is...and I strongly suspect neither of you do either.

1 Reply

@imans,

Humans are ignorant and self absorbed by there own gratification and glorification!

2 Replies

@teljuric,

Thank you. I agree.

0 Replies

@teljuric,

u see he agrees, just to force the understanding that he is with the big guys

but humans are true when existence is true so our realities are right

but of course u mean life sponsored by lies which has nothing to do with any human individuality and true reality
u like to talk about all humans bad to play being with god will above earth

i never saw any human enjoyin glory and ego, when standard of humans are fighting for survival individually and not those minority leanin on powers and one all life knowledge

1 Reply

@imans,

Humans are morons. The moron sits proudly on the pinicle of stupidity.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

I do not necessarily agree with tenderfoots assertion that "the universe has no beginning"...(I also suspect it doesn't, but it MAY have)...but I disagree just as strongly with you.

You are gratuitously calling "the universe" a creation...and then saying "therefore it has to have a creator."

That is begging the question...big time.

Tenderfoot cannot substantiate his assertion: The universe has no beginning"...and you cannot substantiate "the universe is a creation."

The universe MAY be eternal and infinite (MAY not have a beginning)...or it MAY be a creator. I don't know which it is...and I strongly suspect neither of you do either.

Hi Frank.
Your statement that you don't agree, then, the statement that of it might be and then again it might not... This is the formula you use in every case where making a decision on accepting it as true or not true... My statement that there can be no beginning is made on what.. most people, would agree on, if, they believe, that.. if you had a space ship and sent it off from one side the earth at the highest speed you can think up.. you would "never" hit the outer limit or wall or whatever you may think is the start, same goes for the end. I think my assertion has more grounds than your " it might or it mightn't ."

2 Replies

@tenderfoot,

Actually an agnostic, the fence sitters Laughing

, are on equal ground with atheism. They always resort to say there isn't sufficient evidence to claim one or the other so as the saying goes "I don't know." It is a fairly rational stance. Most atheists are partially agnostics in that if sufficient evidence is found in the existence of a God, then they have the disposition to change their beliefs. Only a small percent of atheists will say they'll never ever never ever never ever never ever never ever never ever ever ever ever evvvvvvvveeerrrr gonna believe in God no matter what the evidence maybe.

3 Replies

@aspvenom,

Perhaps a contract to supply a government department or the prospect of marriage into a rich Catholic family would suffice.

Or a red hot poker.

0 Replies

@tenderfoot,

Quote:

Your statement that you don't agree, then, the statement that of it might be and then again it might not... This is the formula you use in every case where making a decision on accepting it as true or not true...

Is there a reason why a person HAS TO “accept” it one way or the other. Is it not possible to simply “accept” that we do not know.

My statement that there can be no beginning is made on what.. most people, would agree on, if, they believe, that.. if you had a space ship and sent it off from one side the earth at the highest speed you can think up.. you would "never" hit the outer limit or wall or whatever you may think is the start, same goes for the end. I think my assertion has more grounds than your " it might or it mightn't ."

My statement, "it might or it might not”…is 100% correct no matter what the REALITY. Your assertion is only correct if the REALITY is that the universe is infinite. So I am not sure why you suppose your assertion “has more grounds.”

Can you fill me in on why you think that?

In any case…as for the “send a space ship” scenario…I find that compelling. BUT, there are theorists who suggest that there MAY BE characteristics of “space” that belie that seeming certainty. I do not pretend to understand their reasoning…but I can appreciate that the REALITY may be so strange that thinking as we are in that scenario may be naive.

No telling…and bottom line: We honestly do not know.

But go back to what I said earlier. Why do you suppose that your statement that the universe is infinite (only correct if it is)...is "more grounded" than mine, which is correct no matter what the REALITY?

1 Reply

@aspvenom,

Quote:

Re: tenderfoot (Post 5255230)
Actually an agnostic, the fence sitters...

Not sure why you suppose saying, "I do not know..." is "fence sitting?"

It is anything but. I'd be delighted to hear your reasoning, though.

Quote:

"...are on equal ground with atheism. They always resort to say there isn't sufficient evidence to claim one or the other so as the saying goes "I don't know."

There are some atheists who do not do that. Some atheists (admittedly very few these days) say they do know...and they also say they know there are no gods. So you are really incorrect here.

Quote:

It is a fairly rational stance. Most atheists are partially agnostics in that if sufficient evidence is found in the existence of a God, then they have the disposition to change their beliefs. Only a small percent of atheists will say they'll never ever never ever never ever never ever never ever never ever ever ever ever evvvvvvvveeerrrr gonna believe in God no matter what the evidence maybe.

Not sure of your point, but it is an issue I enjoy discussing...if you are so disposed.

What say?

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

I would say that those who admit that we don't know are closer to truth than those who think they know. It is better to remain unsure than to create a false opinion. It's good to create opinions to explore the boundaries of what is, but when doing so, we are often left with 2 or more conclusions of what might be. To sit yourself on 1 answer and toss any other answers, when impossible to prove, is foolish.

2 Replies

@Looking4Truth,

And "truth" is.....?

2 Replies

@Looking4Truth,

Thank you, Looking4Truth.

I notice that Fresco asks what "truth" is.

To Fresco..."truth" is what he says it is...and cannot be anything else.

I seriously doubt that...and I hope you do also.

0 Replies

@fresco,

Quote:

And "truth" is.....?

In the matter of "what is the REALITY?"...and such dependent questions as "Are there no gods?"...

..."truth" is, for the most part, an acknowledgment of, "I do not know."

Of course, on those questions, there is an objective truth...which can only be conveyed in language as a tautology: What IS....IS.

0 Replies

@fresco,

Quote:

And "truth" is

There can only be 1 answer. 1 truth. We have always gained knowledge, but we have never came to the understanding of truth. Will truth ever be revealed? I believe so. It's what we don't see that is not understood. Understanding of the unknown truth, I think, will be known once this temporary reality is transformed into infinite truth.

2 Replies

How can something come from nothing?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know