54
   

How can something come from nothing?

 
 
Leadfoot
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2021 08:18 am
Frank said:
Quote:
AT NO POINT DID I EVER SAY THAT I "BELIEVE".....

He hasn't been explicit about this lately, but Frank claims not to 'BELIEVE' Anything . He only claims to hold 'opinions'.

It is on those grounds that he claims to be agnostic as opposed to atheist. At least that is my understanding.

The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2021 09:17 pm
@Leadfoot,
Yes! He proves to all, that he is unconcerned and uncommitted on any subject at issue, he's like a reed blowing in the wind, not knowing whether he is an atheist or simply an agnostic, he doesn't believe that a god exist or if it doesn't exist. A blind man walking towards a cliff.

The scientific evidence is there to prove that the singularity of origin, is still the singularity today, in which he is less than a speck of dust, for what the singularity demands is information, something that he, who is unconcerned and uncommitted on any issue, cannot offer.

An atheist who attempts to prove that somewhere there is evidence that there is no God, will eventually prove to itself that there is, but one who refuses to look, remains blind to the truth, for there are none so blind as they who refuse to see.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2021 09:20 pm
The answer my friend is blowin smoke up the ass.
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2021 09:40 pm
@edgarblythe,
Then it must be a cyclic action, because you're blowing again. Anyway do you believe that the universe came from nothing and if not, what do you believe is the most accepted scientific theory as to the origin of this universe.

Be careful here, because you might upset you're atheist mates, if you reveal the origin of all that exists, that is, if you have the guts to be truthful.
0 Replies
 
Albuquerque
 
  0  
Reply Sun 25 Jul, 2021 08:02 am
@Leadfoot,
Well I guess till now he believes in questioning...there are people who believe less.
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Reply Sun 25 Jul, 2021 01:17 pm
@Albuquerque,
Questioning without believing in the possibility of answers?
Does that really count?
0 Replies
 
htam9876
 
  0  
Reply Sun 25 Jul, 2021 07:49 pm
@ripple,
The OP is very fun.
The bb theory considered this cosmos came from “singularity”. But “singularity” (ρ → ∞, L → 0) is not “nothing”.
Of course, if we think of a symmetric cosmos, then, two symmetric cosmos could come from “nothing”.
But no one knows where’s the symmetric cosmos, never.
Have a lovely day, guys.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 25 Jul, 2021 08:18 pm
@ripple,
It can't.

People who say it can don't understand the basic science of cause and effect.

There must be an Original Cause, even if we don't call it God.
0 Replies
 
The Anointed
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 25 Jul, 2021 11:48 pm
@htam9876,
I may have posted this before, but I believe that it is appropriate here also.
A singularity is a region of space-time in which matter is crushed so closely together that the gravitational laws explained by general relativity break down. In a singularity, the volume of space is zero and its density is infinite. Scientists believe such a singularity exists at the core of a black hole, which occurs when a super-massive sun reaches the end of its life and implodes.

General relativity also demands such a singularity must exist at the beginning of an expanding universe, from which singularity our eternal oscillating and ever evolving universe is resurrected to continue on in that everlasting process.

If General relativity demands that such a singularity must exist at the beginning of an expanding universe, then it could be and is argued, that if the singularity from which this Three Dimensional universe is said to have been created, existed at the core of a Black Hole, it is obvious to anyone who believes that this is the first and only period of three dimensional universal activity, that the Black Hole in which the ‘SINGULARITY’ existed, from which this supposed one and only Three Dimensional Universe was created, had to have originated from a different universe that existed within a different dimension?

There are as many, if not more scientific theories as to the origin of our universe, as there are differing religious bodies, such as Christianity, Hindu, Abrahamic, Muslim, etc.

One of which, is a theory put forward by Niayesh Afshordi, an astrophysicist with Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Canada, which he believes, could explain the singularity within a Super massive Black Hole, from which singularity our ‘Three Dimensional’ Universe was born.

Niayesh Afshordi, proposes that our three-dimensional universe floats as a membrane in a “bulk universe” that has four dimensions and that the “Bulk Universe” has four dimensional stars, which go through the same life cycles as our three-dimensional stars.

The most massive ones explode as supernovae, and their central core collapses into a black hole, (As a Singularity) like in our universe, only in four-dimension. The four-dimensional black hole has its own four dimensional “Event Horizon,” the boundary between the inside and the outside of a black hole.

In a three-dimensional universe, the event horizon appears to be two dimensional. In a four-dimensional universe, it appears to be three dimensional. The four-dimensional black hole, then blows apart, (THE BIG BANG) with the leftover material forming a three-dimensional membrane surrounding a ‘Three Dimensional’ event horizon, which expands---and is essentially our universe.

So, according to the theory proposed by Niayesh Afshordi, our universe is the vomited-up guts of a Super massive fourth dimensional black hole, in which the singularity that is said to have been the origin of our three dimensional universe, had been crushed. The expansion of the event horizon explains our universe's expansion; the fact that its creation stems from another 4D universe explains the weird temperature uniformity.

As attractive as Niayesh Afshordi’s theory is, I will continue to believe in the eternal oscillating universe, which is the evolution of the eternal energy that has neither beginning or end, and that each stage of its activity is a separate generation, and each generation of its eternal evolution, occupies its own position in Space-Time.

As the scriptures state that God gathers all creation back to himself, before creating for us a new heavens and a new earth, (A new universe) I will continue to believe, that this entire universe, which began as a ‘singularity,’ will burn up and fall as fire into the Great Abyss, which is created by the black holes within the condensing Galaxies devouring each other, where it will be crushed back into the singularity from which it was created, only to be blasted out and resurrected to continue on in its eternal process of evolution.

htam9876
 
  0  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2021 06:06 am
@The Anointed,
Piggy always says that the pig is not interested in research of such misty thing as “singularity”, etc. Unfortunately, my mass – space equation (here the form of L ∝ 1/ρ) shows that such ultimate extreme situation of “singularity” could happen in the last episode of this cosmos.
Actually little boys are more interested in research of such fun thing as “what’s male rabbit and what’s female rabbit”…
Haha
The Anointed
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2021 12:31 am
@htam9876,
Enoch the ancestor of the 8 souls in the boat, was taken up at the age of 365 and anointed as the successor to the throne of the Most High in the creation, after which he was taken to the ends of the age and witnessed the heavens burn up and fall as massive columns of fire beyond all measure in height and depth into the Great Abyss=Black Hole, which was described as , "The prison of all the stars and the hosts of heaven."

A singularity is a region of space-time in which matter is crushed so closely together that the gravitational laws explained by general relativity break down. In a singularity, the volume of space is zero and its density is infinite. Scientists believe such a singularity exists at the core of a black hole, which occurs when a super-massive sun reaches the end of its life and implodes.

General relativity also demands such a singularity must exist at the beginning of an expanding universe, from which singularity our eternal oscillating and ever evolving universe is resurrected to continue on in that everlasting process.

The gravitational collapse of a single star such as the minor star of our solar system, can only form a White Dwarf, our sun will eventually burn up all its lighter elements and move on to the heavier material and blow out as a Red Giant, when this happens, it will expand outward and get so large that the orbit of the earth will actually be inside the sun, and the earth’s crust will be melted into an ocean of lava.

Eventually, there will be nothing there to burn and all that will be left of our sun will be a compact White dwarf of carbon and oxygen about the size of today’s earth, and a thimble full of material from the White Dwarf would weigh anything up to a ton.

A neutron star is what is left over when a very heavy star explodes. This explosion is called a Supernova, the gravitational collapse of those bigger stars, create a fast spinning body no bigger than the earth, which is so dense that even a thimble full of their material, would weigh anything up to about 100 million tons.

Atoms have a certain weight, but the weight is almost all in the nucleus. The nucleus inside an atom is so small that if you made a model of an atom that was the size of a large house, the nucleus would still only be the size of a grain of salt. An atom, apart from its nucleus, is almost all space.

In a neutron star, all of the atoms have been crushed together so tightly by the force of gravity that their nuclei are touching. If you can imagine the amount of space needed for a billion large houses to occupy, then reduce that to the space needed to house a billion grains of salt, which still weigh almost the same as the billion houses, then you have some idea as to what a neutron star is. But unlike a Black Hole, rotating neutron stars do radiate pulses of energy and are also called ‘Pulsars.’ As a point of interest, in 2020, scientists witnessed two separate events only ten days apart of a black Hole devouring a neutron star.

Our Milky Way galaxy is said to be anchored in space by a super Black hole, which has a mass of some three to four million suns, and if you think that’s a big black hole, consider this; “In December of 2019, astronomers announced the discovery of one of the biggest black holes ever measured in the nearby universe. That black hole is at the center of an elliptical galaxy in galaxy cluster Abel 85, and has been calculated to be 40 billion times the mass of our sun, which is equivalent to two-thirds the mass of the 100-billion stars in the Milky Way and is roughly the size of our entire solar system.”

Our Milky Way and the nearby Andromeda Galaxy, which are two spiral galaxies are on a collision course, and when these two spiral galaxies collide, they can merge and form an elliptical galaxy, which elliptical galaxies can collide and merge again to form an even larger elliptical galaxy. The central Black holes of those elliptical galaxies also merge and combine to make one massive Black Hole, and those Massive galaxies, which are called ‘core galaxies’ are believed to be the main attractive force at the center of galactic clusters, which clusters are being attracted to a super Duper gravitational anomaly within the Shapley Super Cluster, which is the largest concentration of galaxies in our nearby universe that forms a gravitational anomaly that is pulling itself together instead of expanding with the universe.

It is believed that pairs of spiral galaxies form elliptical galaxies, pairs of those elliptical galaxies form cored elliptical galaxies, and a pair of cored galaxies formed Holmberg 15A, and that this series of mergers also created the ultra-massive black hole in its center, a monster nearly as big as our solar system with the mass of around 40 billion suns.

When will this process end? Will there eventually end up being only one super galaxy orbiting an immeasurable monstrous Black Hole wherein the centre of which, will be crushed all our known universe into the singularity from which our universe began, where the volume of space is zero and its density is infinite? Are we looking at an eternal oscillating universe?

According to the ancients, we live in an eternal oscillating universe that expands outward and contracts back to its beginning in space time, a living universal being who is all that exists, and in who, all that is, exists. A universe that exists in the two states of seemingly visible matter and invisible energy.

“Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non-being, and again from non-being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all, the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence.” ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2021 02:23 am
Blind guess after blind guess.

That is what "religion" is...nothing but blind guess after blind guess.

Kinda sad in a way; hilariously funny in other ways.
Leadfoot
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2021 08:02 am
@Frank Apisa,
Damn Frank, i expected better of you.
Almost all of what TA posts is straight up current mainstream cosmology.

Whether it is relevant to his theology is another question.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2021 08:21 am
@Leadfoot,
not really, he posts his wikis and fails to make connections to a rational point of conclusion.
Leadfoot
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2021 08:38 am
@farmerman,
You disagree with me by restating my own post.
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2021 12:23 pm
@Leadfoot,
no, Im jut telling you hre youre wrong. I have no obligation to play teacher, you can read all his Genesian/Cosmatology salads.
Both of you seem to have no ideas what constitutes evidence . All he does is to quote something from a prayer book as i that is a valid scientific approach. Making a statement and "backing it up" with Scripture is only amusing, and not a valid approach.

htam9876
 
  0  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2021 12:57 pm
@The Anointed,
The employment of Mass Point Dynamic to describe singularity is somewhat awkward, and even it’s “method inappropriate”. The mainstream confused the core of black hole with singularity. If you are willing to enter the new era of the PRESENCE – SELF, you will be AWARE of this point. Otherwise, never.
………………………………………………………………..
Now piggy would rather know more about Lord. At least, would you please introduce who’s Enoch, what’s eight souls, what’s “Most High in the creation”…sounds the word “anoint” has something to do with G* too?
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2021 04:42 pm
@farmerman,
You can’t seem to tell when I’m critiquing and when I’m affirming.

Whatever’ is the only appropriate response I can think of.
0 Replies
 
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2021 05:20 pm
@htam9876,
So then, I see that you have no clue as to who Enoch is, or who the 8 souls referred to in scripture are, or who the Most High to have developed within 'THE GREAT THOUGHT' that has brought this generation of the universe into existence is, which points to the fact that you have never read the holy scriptures, or if you have, you did not have the capability of comprehend that which you read.

As you appear to be totally ignorant to the scriptures, let me first introduce you to who Enoch is, according to those scriptures.

Enoch is first mentioned in the book of Genesis 5: 24; where it is written that Enoch walked with God, and at the age of 365 (The number of days in a calendar year) he disappeared because God had taken him.

The second time he is mentioned is in the book of Hebrews KJV, 11: 5; By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. (To translate something to to change it from one form to another, Enoch was translated, from a body of corruptible matter, to a glorious body of brilliant and blinding light, and anointed as the successor to the throne of the Most High in the creation, which had been held by 'THE LORD OF CREATURES.'

This is seen in the book of "The Book of the Secrets of Enoch" 22: 8; "And I fell prone and bowed down to the Lord, and the Lord with his lips said to me: "Have courage, Enoch, do not fear, arise and stand before ‘MY’ face into eternity."

And the archistratiege Michael lifted me up, and led me before the Lord’s face.
[Archistratege. Or, "the commander of the armies of the nations, named Michael."]

And the Most-High said to the glorious creatures that surrounded him, tempting them: "Let Enoch stand before ‘MY’ face into eternity," and the glorious creatures bowed down to the Lord, and said: "Let Enoch go [Or be released] according to Thy word." Enoch, was the first to be released.
And the Lord said to Michael: "Go take Enoch from out his earthly garments, and anoint him with my sweet ointment, and put him into the garments of my glory."

And Michael did thus as the Lord told him. He anointed me, and dressed me, and the appearance of that ointment is more than the great light, and his ointment is like sweet dew, and its smell mild, shining like the sun’s rays, and I looked at myself, and was like one of his glorious ones.

Enoch was then to serve God before the body of Adam (Mankind the Lord of Creatures) into all eternity.

The author of the book of Hebrews could not have known that Enoch was translated in order that he should never experience death, unless he had read from the books of Enoch, which were banned by the Roman church of Emperor Constantine in the fourth century A.D. and condemned as heretical, even though Jude the step brother to Jesus wrote in Jude 1: 14; "It was Enoch, the seventh direct descendant from Adam, who long ago prophesied this about them: “The Lord will come with many thousands of his holy angels 15to bring judgement on all, to condemn them all for the godless deeds they have performed and for all the terrible words that godless sinners have spoken against him!”

But that will have to do for now as the wife is chaffing at the bit, to go to town. So I will continue your education in the holy scriptures when we return, that is, If time permits and God is willing.
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2021 10:23 pm
@The Anointed,
Now, where were we? Ah yes, we were speaking of Enoch who was in the valley of man, or the inner spiritual dimension that co-exists within our three dimensional world, for three days, or rather three periods of one thousand years, before being born again on earth as the man Jesus, who is the son of Mary and her half brother Joseph, who were both sired by Alexander Helios III, or Heli as he is called.

From the Book of Jubilees 4: 30; And he (ADAM) lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge: 'On the day that ye eat thereof ye shall die.' For this reason he did not complete the years of this day; for he died during it.

The word “CHRIST” means “The Anointed One.” Enoch was the only one recorded in scripture to have been anointed by the Most-High in the creation, ‘The Lord of Creatures,’ as his Heir and successor, (The Son of Man) who is Lord of spirits.

Christ is the English term for the Greek Χριστός (Khristós) meaning "the anointed one" It is a translation of the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Māšîaḥ), usually transliterated into English as Messiah or Mashiach. The Hebrew word translated "anointed" is the verb form of the noun "Messiah."

Enoch, from a previous age of man that was destroyed by water, is the only man recorded in the Scriptures to have been carried to the throne of the Most High in the creation, and was anointed as his successor, who was then escorted to the ends of time, where he witnessed the universe burn up and fall as massive columns of fire, beyond all measure in height and depth into the GREAT ABYSS, (Black Hole) which is described by Enoch, as the prison of all the stars and the host of heaven, (The entire universe) beyond which, there was nothing.

The writings of Enoch were held in great reverence by the early church fathers, including Irenaeus, Origen and Tertullian, and were cherished by the early Christians, up until the fourth century, when, they were banned by dogmatic Roman authorities such as Hilary, Jerome and Augustine, and by the end of the fourth century, (Which is the beginning of the fifth century) they were condemned as being heretical, and they finally passed out of circulation by the middle of the fifth century (550 A.D. See Imhotep) and were thought lost for millennia.

In Ancient Egyptian religion, Ptah was the God that called everything into existence. He was also regarded as the father of the human sage Imhotep, who was later deified and became a god.

Imhotep, was called the “God of Medicine,” “Prince of Peace,” and a “Type of Christ,” as was Melchizedek. Imhotep was worshipped as a god and healer from approximately 2850 B.C. to 525 B.C., and as a full deity from 525 B.C. to 550 A.D., Imhotep was a known scribe, chief lector, priest, architect, astronomer and a creator of drugs and medicines from plants. For 3000 years he was worshipped as a god in Greece and Rome. Early Christians worshipped him as the “Prince of Peace,” ‘Salem.’ A poet and philosopher, Imhotep coined the saying; “Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we shall die.

The similarities between Imhotep and Enoch, of who it is said in scripture, was translated in order that he should never experience death, and who, like Imhotep, was chosen as the heir of ‘The Most-High’ and also deified and became a god: will be discussed later, if the need arises.

Moses, the founder of the Jewish faith, Jesus the founder of the Christian faith and his apostles, all taught from the words of righteous Enoch, as seen in the fact that some of their teachings are found only in the Books of Enoch.

But that is enough of Enoch, for the time being, the next post will be concerned to the 8 souls, in the boat, who are all direct descendants of Enoch.
0 Replies
 
 

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