How can something come from nothing?

@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

I doubt that Science is your savior, and neither is your IQ.

A savior for what purposes?

@InfraBlue,

I thought in context it was pretty clear. Al was talking about politics, climate change, sub par IQ and (in previous post) existential questions. Did you have a question about one or the other?

Quote:

Albuquerque Quote:
Lets hope Science can fix politics, and climate change, and augment human average IQ before Science take us all to a technological catastrophe

Leadfoot replied:
I think you’re bark'n up the wrong tree even for those minor problems, let alone the existential ones.
I doubt that Science is your savior, and neither is your IQ.

1 Reply

@Leadfoot,

Oh, science as a savoir from politics, climate change, human average IQ, and science, i.e. technological catastrophe, itself. Got it.

What's your alternative, exactly?

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

To know reality.

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@Leadfoot,

That's the aim of science, or are you referring to something different?

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@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

So then, based on travels in life, your opinion on the issue of genocide carries the same weight as those who opine that acts of genocide are acceptable. Your opinion that acts of genocide are unacceptable isn't empirically better than an opinion that acts of genocide are acceptable.

No opinion of mine is "empirically better" than any one else's opinion.

If that is a problem with you...tell me why?

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

Quote:

That's the aim of science, or are you referring to something different?

Hhaaaaa ha,ha,ha.

'Science', (as it is usually understood by most here), has no recognition of anything not explainable by the basic forces of physics as we understand them. You actually think there is some 'rule' that nothing beyond that is even allowed to be considered. It is a self imposed blindness or maybe fear, I don’t know exactly, still trying to figure out how this pseudo definition of Science got started, but it blinds you to the obvious.

'Science' is good stuff, but it only studies a small subset of reality.

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@Frank Apisa,

The problem is that, being merely a matter of opinion, the acceptability of genocide is as valid as the unacceptability of genocide. It seems that there should be more empirical justifications for either position.

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@Leadfoot,

So, what's the greater portion of the whole of reality that science doesn't study?

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@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

The problem is that, being merely a matter of opinion, the acceptability of genocide is as valid as the unacceptability of genocide. It seems that there should be more empirical justifications for either position.

Consensus of opinion may be the factor that differentiates the two.

BUT if more people consider the acceptability of genocide to be as valid as its unacceptability...for all intents and purposes...it is.

At one time, it certainly seemed to be that way...or even weighted more in favor of acceptability than unacceptability.

The times chronicled in the Bible can be seen that way.

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@InfraBlue,

Quote:

So, what's the greater portion of the whole of reality that science doesn't study?

Oh come on Blue, you’ve heard it all before, (or not, he who hath an ear, let him listen).
'Science' is blind to the implications of their own discoveries. Ever since Watson and Crick deciphered the meaning (not just the structure) of DNA, there is no excuse for any knowledgeable biologist (or layman who understands it), not to see that all Biological organisms were designed.

But you do know what would happen to any biologist who dared to say so.
Some do anyway, thank God.

And so they go on seeking grants to study how the impossible, could have happened. It’s the perfect job security.

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@Leadfoot,

Quote:

Ever since Watson and Crick deciphered the meaning (not just the structure) of DNA, there is no excuse for any knowledgeable biologist (or layman who understands it), not to see that all Biological organisms were designed.

But you do know what would happen to any biologist who dared to say so.
Some do anyway, thank God.

Perhaps your memo "of understanding from Biological sciences" never got to James D. Watson. Please find and read pp 404 of his book DNA (Knopf 2003)

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@Leadfoot,

... for the sake of a deeper argument lets grant your point for a second, who designed the designer eh?
The designer should in principle be vastly more complex then any life on Earth!
So your argument doesn't hold water as it just pushes the question one step further...

As I keep saying there is no one driving the bus. Even if there was a plausible designer like an advance AGI or Alien race they also would not have any free will...their own complexity would not be explained and so would not on the idea of a final Creator!

The ID pseudo explanation explains nothing it just deepens the odds one step further down the ladder! Farma thinks its random, and in a certain way he has a sort of a point, it is pseudo random...in my view the whole thing is logarithmic and runs the whole process of "possibilities" with a very simple set of rules that no one fabricated.

So ultimately your question is why is there a Reality at all?
And the answer is as as I always said because there is no nothingness for alternative!
In a jigsaw like Rubik's cube simple states and complex states are bound to happen!

1 Reply

@Albuquerque,

even Frnncis Crick's ID hypothesis involves advanced alien civilizations rocketing bolides in multi directions in space hoping they would land and "seed".
I can buy panspermia but not Crick' s hypothesis anymore than for the reason that I cannot buy ID as rational science . ID has no way to be tested , refuted, verified etc. ACTUAL SCIENTIFIC research can be falsified and evidenced or disproven.
Deniers want to try to debunk science based on several assertions, none of which can be evidenced or proven. They dont even have a way with which to conduct the appropriate reserch.

ID is merely a collection of beliefs and sayings that all require an Abrahamic deity .

I was reading about the "Underground Mosquito species "OfLondon. A separate species of mosquito that had taken up residence in the London underground during the Blitz and has since, Developed its own genetic picture separate from its last common ancestor species that lives above ground.
This is rather similar to the speciation of carnivorous Chichlid fish of the Connecticut River that have evolved since the Industrial Revolution and the damming of the River so that these cichlids, originally brackish water fish, have developed a novel genome and body plan within about 350 years,

Intelligent Designer plannd the blitz and drew up the blueprints for the dams?

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Quote:

Intelligent Designer planned the blitz and drew up the blueprints for the dams?

Exactly! I also remember something about a black moth in the first industrial Revolution back on the steam days, I just can't recall the details right now.

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@Albuquerque,

youre talking about industrial melanism on the black and white peppered mothBetulis sp.(a). This was an example of how species that hve a large polymorphic fields in their gene pool can flip flop with changing environmental pressures. The peppered moths were going back and forth between the black and white phases and , would the environment stay one way ,new species may have developed. The Tube mosquitoes ARE an example of genetic mod and speciation since the two species have settled on separate environments. (All , I suppose, arranged by the Intelligent Designer)

Thousands of species have been created in the paleo history of Hominims.
Discovering the Intelligent Designer responsible for an adaptational speciation or drift or even simple population divergence is much more difficult to ascertain. Yet the IDers have now been trying to us genetics as their weapon of choice. Yet we have clear evidence that genes can shut off, copy and then have a new gen with the exact same chemical structure code for a totally different function

1 Reply

@Albuquerque,

Quote:

Farmer Quote:
Intelligent Designer planned the blitz and drew up the blueprints for the dams?

Al sez,
Exactly! I also remember something about a black moth in the first industrial Revolution back on the steam days, I just can't recall the details right now.

Oh jeez, Al, get farmer to straighten you out on the old 'industrial moth evolution' thing. I’ve done it my share already.

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@Leadfoot,

Oh, I forgot about the 'tube mosquitos'.

I wonder if there are any other environments like underground passageways on earth before the invention of subways?

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@Leadfoot,

You folks havent done enough homework to fully undertsand what the Peppered moth story actually means. One trqit of a Polymorphic spred"Sheet" can be selected for specieation if the environmental pressure remains or one of the polymorphs is wiped out (in Mendeliean terms).

You apparently had been listening to gungasnake too much(and believed he had any idea about what he spoke)

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@Leadfoot,

So what? Farma explanation was good! Genes that shut off are no news...
And you have yet to explain the Designer complexity itself...can you address that please!

1 Reply

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