How can something come from nothing?

Quote:

Romeo said: Stephen Hawking says the Great Pyramids 40-million tons weight slows down time for people near it, so argue it out with him, not me!
Herald replied: Are you kidding, I am not a a level to argue with S.H., but I can argue with you.

We holy men don't do "argue" mate, we simply state facts.. Smile

Hawking (and Einstein) said space is stretchy, elastic, and mass slows down time, and experiments and observations have proven it, so why should we believe you and not them?

2 Replies

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Hawking (and Einstein) said space is stretchy, elastic, and mass slows down time, and experiments and observations have proven it, so why should we believe you and not them?

Nobody wants for you to believe either them or me - just make your own personal verification and validation tests ... and don't believe blindly to any logical fallacies of class Argument from Authority ... in this way some day you may start having a better understanding of the world.
Besides that, if you are not Hawking ... pls. speak on behalf of yourself, what are your personal beliefs and how do you verify & validate them before putting them into your personal knowledge of the world?

0 Replies

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

We holy men don't do "argue" mate, we simply state facts..

     In the capacity of a holy man equipped with 'facts' can you tell us, the simple mortal, if the Time-Space Continuum is measured in cu.m . sec, what is the unit for measuring its speed (the rate of its 'expansion', for example) - cu.m . sec/sec = cu.m
     Do you really believe that the speed of the Time-Space Continuum is measured in cubic meters - that the Universe actually comprises the speed of the Time-Space Continuum? Can you name something from your collection of facts, whose speed is measured in cu.m? (BTW, the Nobel Prize of Einstein is not for the relativity theory).
     What about the density of the Time-Space Continuum - what is its measuring unit? cu.m . sec/cu.m. = sec. The density is measured in seconds - what is the physical interpretation of this - that Time (notwithstanding that it does not exist in the physical world) actually comprises the density of the Time-Space Continuum?! Besides that if Time is the density of the Time-Space there is no way for it to be the 'fourth orthogonal dimension' and concurrently with that to be a derivative of that very same 'Continuum'.
     When you start believing in such theories some day you may construct (who knows) a brand new physics - that will match the theories.

1 Reply

@Herald,

You're beginning to sound like a *******, broken, record.
Answer those questions yourself, you're so ******* smart!

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Quote:

Herald said to me: pls. speak on behalf of yourself, what are your personal beliefs and how do you verify & validate them before putting them into your personal knowledge of the world?

My only belief is that we don't know the true nature of "reality", so we can't really make any solid guesses about it, although it's fun to speculate.. Smile

Jesus said-"You hardly believe me when I tell you earthly things,so how would you believe me if I told you heavenly things?" (John 3:12)
"You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world" (John 8:23)
"I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going" (John 8:14)

And in the words of great philosophers-
"Strawberry Fields, nothing is real" (The Beatles)
"We are such stuff as dreams are made on, and our little life is rounded with a sleep.." (The Tempest)
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.'' - (Albert Einstein)
"You can be in my dream if I can be in your dream" (Bob Dylan)
"All that we see or seem, is but a dream within a dream"- (Edgar Allen Poe)
"What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes" (James 4:14)
"There is a fifth dimension, beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition" (Rod Serling)
"Have you ever had a dream that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world?" (Morpheus in The Matrix)

2 Replies

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

My only belief is that we don't know the true nature of "reality"

This is very general statement, can't you be more specific?

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

... so we can't really make any solid guesses about it, although it's fun to speculate..

Verifying some guess for plausibility and feasibility is not 'speculation' - it is called verification and validation tests. In the case of the Time-Space Continuum the main question is: can any-D space be made of heterogeneous dimensions ... for I can mix vodka and gin and juice and make a 3D-drink. By this method you can do actually any-D things ... but are these really dimensions?

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

"I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going" (John 8:14)

IMV this would sound much better like that: '... but you have no idea where you come from and where you are going'. BTW from where are you so sure that the Prophets haven't changed the messages they personally haven't understood by the time being?

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Knowledge and truth are the natures of reality. All the possibilities are reality.

0 Replies

Quote:

Romeo said: My only belief is that we don't know the true nature of "reality"
Herald replied: This is very general statement, can't you be more specific?

We all share the same reality of being trapped in these squishy human bodies pinned by gravity to this spinning ball of mud as it sails through space without knowing how we got here or where we're going.
Bur whether it's a dream or illusion we just don't know!
The bottom line is IT'S THE ONLY REALITY WE'VE GOT, so let's just sit back and ride it out.. Wink

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/hangs-earth_zpsd890daaa.jpg~original

2 Replies

@fresco,

If you listen to someone such as Lawrence Krauss, our idea of nothing is not nothing at all. Therefore, there was something all along (which would be free-floating virtual particles leading to the big bang).

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

We all share the same reality of being trapped in these squishy human bodies

How many bodies do you want to have ... and why?

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

... pinned by gravity to this spinning ball of mud as it sails through space without knowing how we got here or where we're going.

     If this could be a relief and consolation to you, everything in the Universe is pinned by some gravity to something. The planets are pinned to the local star, our galaxy is pinned to Sagittarius, etc.
     Besides that we might 'be pinned here' as a trial - to see how far we can go in terms of indicators greed and stupidity ... and if something goes wrong the worst case scenario to be self-destruction of the species.
     Which normal intelligent life form will release retards to do the housework throughout the Universe?

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

The bottom line is IT'S THE ONLY REALITY WE'VE GOT

     The bottom line is: We are pinned to the Earth because of the fossil fuels. If we succeed to jump-over the energy barrier - start using more effectively the energy of the Sun - we could be able to travel withing the Solar system, at least.
     If we start using the dark energy of the cosmos we would be able to go virtually everywhere in the Universe.
     ... and in case you solve the problem with the delay of Time around the Pyramid (provide evidences that a cesium clock near the pyramid has higher frequency than away from it) - we will have eventually the time to do the space trip.

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@ripple,

what you might be refering to is a form from the formless.
or the cause and the effect, the effects being the forms of perception and that which is and not caple of being looked at or god or the first cause.

weither this entity is a living being or some automaton is anoter matter depending on the subject i.e. person.

also the terms which you are refering to may not be so easyly defined.
it's hard to understand what it is that you are talking about.

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Quote:

Romeo said: We all share the same reality of being trapped in these squishy human bodies
Herald asked: How many bodies do you want to have ... and why?

I dunno what you mean mate, my 66-yr-old body is showing some little signs of wear and tear but I'm still quite happy with it.. Smile

PS- Has anybody seen the film 'Gravity?'. It's got deep spiritual overtones.
****Spoiler******
Sandra Bullock is left floating helplessly in space when high-velocity orbiting debris shoots the Shuttle out from under her...

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/Grav2_zps259c693e.jpg~original

...and wonders how she'll ever get back to dear old mother earth..hmm tricky one..

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/Grav1_zps31d9e15f.jpg~original

But she splashes safely down in the end, and even though she began the film as an atheist, she mumbles a 'thanks' to God-

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/Grav3_zps5cf27a7d.jpg~original

Her fellow astronaut George Clooney didn't make it back but it doesn't seem to bother her too much..

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/gravity-2_zps206c1270.jpg~original

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

..... we all share the same reality of being trapped in these squishy human bodies pinned by gravity to this spinning ball of mud as it sails through space without knowing how we got here or where we going.

I'm sorry you are not satisfied with our planet and your "squishy" body. Also sad that you haven't read in the Bible how we got here or what God's purpose is for us. But, then, a complete understanding has eluded you from the beginning, right?

0 Replies

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Quote:
Romeo said: We all share the same reality of being trapped in these squishy human bodies
Herald asked: How many bodies do you want to have ... and why?
Romeo said: I dunno what you mean mate
     '... of being trapped in this body' supposes that you are not satisfied with staying within that body ... and you want to go somewhere else, to have some out-of-body experience, astral projection or soul travel - call it as you like - in order to go where, R.? On the other side of the Moon ... or of the Universe? Why is that?
     Without the material carrier our soul is abstract and immaterial communication - it is not a TV program. In order to become a TV program it needs a material carrier, a TV set - in other words a body.
     When you arrive at Andromeda (if you succeed to arrive at all) there should be a body waiting for you to host your soul, otherwise you will start wandering as a drunken ghost in a closed pub. What to you need all that for? Why should somebody need after f'ck'ng up everything on the Earth to go wherever? If somebody escapes from life once, why should he deserve a second chance? This will encourage the people to behave absolutely irresponsibly ... no matter who and where they are ... and start stealing bodies (along with the other things)? There always will be some military criminal needing a new body? The life would become a nightmare.
     IMV the Creator (whoever is He/It) has known what He is doing ... and I highly doubt that this Creator is the Big Bang 'theory'.

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Quote:

Neologist said to me: I'm sorry you are not satisfied with our planet and your "squishy" body. Also sad that you haven't read in the Bible how we got here or what God's purpose is for us. But, then, a complete understanding has eluded you from the beginning, right?

It's simple enough mate, the earth is a Testing Ground, and if we pass the test we qualify to get off this ball of mud once and for all.
But if you JW's don't want to leave, I'm sure you're welcome to stay.. Smile

"Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life.." (James 1:12)

2 Replies

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

It's simple enough mate, the earth is a Testing Ground, and if we pass the test we qualify to get off this ball of mud once and for all.
But if you JW's don't want to leave, I'm sure you're welcome to stay.

Quote:

For only the upright will reside in the earth. And the blameless will remain in it. As for the wicked, they will be cut off from the earth. And the treacherous will be torn away from it. (Proverbs 2:21,22)

This was the only hope known to the Jews until Jesus instituted the New Covenant, allowing for a heavenly class.

BTW, where did you find the scripture telling about the testing ground?

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Quote:

Neologist asked: where did you find the scripture telling about the testing ground?

Here ya go mate, this is one of my sensational essays that are plastered all over internet-land.. Smile

GOLD BERET
Just as Army Regiments award the beige beret (SAS), green beret beret (US Special Forces) and red beret (Paras) etc, so does God award us a "gold beret" if we pass his test.

The only success that matters is getting through the Life Assault Course:-
"All creation groans in pain from the beginning til now" (Rom 8:22)

And it sorts the men from the boys:-
"We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God" (Acts 14:22)

Jesus welcomes anybody into his squad:-
"Whoever comes to me I'll never turn away" (John 6:37)

And he'll lead by example:-
"To follow me you must carry your own cross daily" (Luke 9:23)

The C.O. shows no favouritism:-
"God didn't spare his own son" (Rom 8:32)

So if he can hack it so can we:-
"We share in Jesus's sufferings in order to share in his glory" (Rom 8:17)

And others have stayed the course too:-
"I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith" (2 Tim 4:7)

Then if we qualify we win the Gold Beret:-
"Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life.." (James 1:12)

But for those who want a soft, easy religion, Christianity's not for them -
"They prefer teachers who only tell them what they want to hear" (2 Tim 4:3)

Waddya say sergeant?

"Take the pain! TAKE THE PAIN!"

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/Barnes.jpg

2 Replies

@Romeo Fabulini,

Uhh, Romeo. None of those make your point.

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Are you stating for the record that God intended the Earth to be as it is today?

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Quote:

Smileyrius said: Are you stating for the record that God intended the Earth to be as it is today?

Like what?

1 Reply

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