oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2012 07:46 pm
@raprap,
raprap wrote:
are you saying the ninth, gives the Feds the right to prohibit alcohol to the states and shortly change their mind?


No.



raprap wrote:
As for the second, a reading of the second yields the potential to allow US citizens the opportunity to possess individual small thermonuclear devices (as long as these devices were registered).


That is unlikely. Hard to see how such a device would be either a defensive weapon or a militia weapon.
raprap
 
  0  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2012 07:59 pm
@oralloy,
Hand me the nuclear handgernade.

Rap
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  0  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2012 08:18 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
Hard to see how such a device would be either a defensive weapon or a militia weapon


UUUUUUUUUUUUUWEEE

Youve just made a decision in "classifying" what is NOT an "ARM". Better be careful cause now youre on shaky ground.
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2012 08:33 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
oralloy wrote:
Hard to see how such a device would be either a defensive weapon or a militia weapon


UUUUUUUUUUUUUWEEE

Youve just made a decision in "classifying" what is NOT an "ARM".


Not necessarily, but irrelevant even if I did just do so.



farmerman wrote:
Better be careful cause now youre on shaky ground.


No. I'm on factual bedrock as always. I'll be fine.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  3  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2012 09:44 pm
@gungasnake,
Your powers of observation are excellent!





David
0 Replies
 
raprap
 
  0  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2012 10:46 pm
@farmerman,
I feel there are degrees of thermonuclear devices that should be considered here. First there are pulse thermonuclear devices and the traditional explosive type. Both types have application, consequently it would have consequence on this discussion.

Pulse- this could be a prompt nuclear event that is designed to give prompt nuclear events--Very short (microsecond duration) . In addition to the timing of the event you could have choice of type of radiation (alpha, beta, gamma, neutron), particle frequency, and degree of coherence (X-ray lasers) and energy yield.

As for application, it could be used for home protection. In one case I can imagine a security system connected to a small pulse reactor (thermonuclear in application) that could stop a invader (from stun to kill) upon detection. Another application as a pulse thermonuclear hand held X-ray laser that would be analogous to a Glock with a nearly infinite magazine.

Thermonuclear explosions--as anyone understands a modicum of physics explosions result from the expansion of matter. Chemically it happens when you have a very fast reaction (usually greater than the speed of sound in matter) yielding a sudden expansion of matter. With small thermonuclear events this can result from the sudden release of thermal energy. That is turning all matter in the vicinity of the criticality into a plasma.

OK here's the rub--explosives can be used for construction. And as such are a productive tool (unlike a conventional firearm).

As a result one could envision technologies that would have to be considered on the constitutionality of possession of small thermonuclear devices by individuals.

Rap
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Dec, 2012 07:02 am
@raprap,
raprap wrote:
I feel there are degrees of thermonuclear devices that should be considered here. First there are pulse thermonuclear devices and the traditional explosive type. Both types have application, consequently it would have consequence on this discussion.

Pulse- this could be a prompt nuclear event that is designed to give prompt nuclear events--Very short (microsecond duration) . In addition to the timing of the event you could have choice of type of radiation (alpha, beta, gamma, neutron), particle frequency, and degree of coherence (X-ray lasers) and energy yield.

As for application, it could be used for home protection. In one case I can imagine a security system connected to a small pulse reactor (thermonuclear in application) that could stop a invader (from stun to kill) upon detection. Another application as a pulse thermonuclear hand held X-ray laser that would be analogous to a Glock with a nearly infinite magazine.


Star Trek is cool. The fictional yet realistic-sounding technology they come up is also cool.

But it's fantasy. None of it is real.



raprap wrote:
Thermonuclear explosions--as anyone understands a modicum of physics explosions result from the expansion of matter. Chemically it happens when you have a very fast reaction (usually greater than the speed of sound in matter) yielding a sudden expansion of matter. With small thermonuclear events this can result from the sudden release of thermal energy. That is turning all matter in the vicinity of the criticality into a plasma.


The only criticality in a thermonuclear explosion is inside the trigger that compresses the fuel and the sparkplug that ignites it. The main part of the weapon's energy is generated by non-critical processes.

The means by which nuclear weapons turn nearby matter into plasma has nothing to to with thermal energy. They do it by releasing an extremely large number of X-rays.



raprap wrote:
OK here's the rub--explosives can be used for construction. And as such are a productive tool (unlike a conventional firearm).

As a result one could envision technologies that would have to be considered on the constitutionality of possession of small thermonuclear devices by individuals.


I could imagine how a state militia could make use of neutron bombs, but those would not be weapons in the possession of individual militiamen.
raprap
 
  0  
Reply Wed 19 Dec, 2012 07:27 am
@oralloy,
Two points Oraboy

How long ago were those "Star Trek' Communicators fiction? Your strawman argument against "Science Fiction" technologies is closed minded. The Singularity is fast creeping up on you.

Now a little edumacation on Nuklar Criticalities fer ya!

A fission criticality is a multiplication of neutrons. As there are two methods of neutron multiplication, prompt and delayed, a explosive nuclear criticality is a prompt neutrons multiplication using sudden energetic dissassembly to go subcritical. Power reactors use delayed neutron to control a prompt subcritical assembly.

The explosion in a prompt critical occurs because of the interaction of matter outside of that criticality with those neutrons generated inside the rapidly dissassembling pile.

That is where that energy comes from. X-rays are only one form of energy---

That matter interaction absorbs the approx 100 meV per fission as the neutron goes from fast to thermal. Yes, some X-rays are produced as the fission occurs, so are high energy alpha and beta particles, but the vast amount of energy is given off as neutrons pass through a volatile neutron moderators. Interestingly neutron bombs are a similar critical assembly without the volatile moderator.

BTW A little point on definition: Generally X-rays are photons generated from electronic effects--neutron generated photons are called gamma radiation.

Rap

oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Dec, 2012 06:38 pm
@raprap,
raprap wrote:
Oraboy


You engage in name-calling because you are too stupid to say anything intelligent.



raprap wrote:
Now a little edumacation on Nuklar Criticalities fer ya!


Unlike you, I am not in any need of any education in this issue.



raprap wrote:
The explosion in a prompt critical occurs because of the interaction of matter outside of that criticality with those neutrons generated inside the rapidly dissassembling pile.


Nope. It comes from the interaction of that matter with X-rays emerging from the bomb.



raprap wrote:
the vast amount of energy is given off as neutrons pass through a volatile neutron moderators.


No such moderators.

And no. The vast majority of the energy is given off as X-rays.



raprap wrote:
Interestingly neutron bombs are a similar critical assembly without the volatile moderator.


Nope. The neutrons in a neutron bomb are not generated by a critical assembly.
raprap
 
  0  
Reply Wed 19 Dec, 2012 09:30 pm
@oralloy,
Apparently you know more about Thermonuclear Physics then either Wikipedia, or Glasstone or Sesonske (a mentor from Purdue).

Quote:
Effects of nuclear explosions
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An American nuclear test.
Nuclear weapons

Background
History Warfare Arms race Design Testing Effects Delivery Espionage Proliferation Arsenals Terrorism Opposition
Nuclear-armed states
United States Russia United Kingdom France China Israel India Pakistan North Korea South Africa (former)


The energy released from a nuclear weapon detonated in the troposphere can be divided into four basic categories:[1]
Blast—40–50% of total energy
Thermal radiation—30–50% of total energy
Ionizing radiation—5% of total energy (more in a neutron bomb)
Residual radiation—5–10% of total energy
However, depending on the design of the weapon and the environment in which it is detonated the energy distributed to these categories can be increased or decreased.

The blast effect is created by the coupling of immense amounts of energy, spanning the electromagnetic spectrum, with the surroundings. Locations such as submarine, surface, airburst, or exo-atmospheric determine how much energy is produced at blast and how much as radiation. In general, denser media around the bomb, like water, absorb more energy, and create more powerful shockwaves while at the same time limiting the area of its effect.

When an airburst occurs lethal blast and thermal effects proportionally scale much more rapidly than lethal radiation effects, as higher and higher yield nuclear weapons are used.[2]

The physical-damage mechanisms of a nuclear weapon (blast and thermal radiation) are identical to those of conventional explosives. However, the energy produced by a nuclear explosive is millions of times more powerful per gram and the temperatures reached are briefly in the tens of millions of degrees.

Energy from a nuclear explosive is initially released in several forms of penetrating radiation. When there is a surrounding material such as air, rock, or water, this radiation interacts with and rapidly heats it to an equilibrium temperature (i.e. so that the matter is at the same temperature as the atomic bomb's matter). This causes vaporization of surrounding material resulting in its rapid expansion. Kinetic energy created by this expansion contributes to the formation of a shockwave. When a nuclear detonation occurs in air near sea level, much of the released energy interacts with the atmosphere and creates a shockwave which expands spherically from the hypocenter. Intense thermal radiation at the hypocenter forms a fireball and if the burst is low enough, its often associated mushroom cloud. In a burst at high altitudes, where the air density is low, more energy is released as ionizing gamma radiation and x-rays than an atmosphere-displacing shockwave.
In 1942 there was some initial speculation among the scientists developing the first nuclear weapons that there might be a possibility of igniting the Earth's atmosphere with a large enough nuclear explosion. This would concern a nuclear reaction of two nitrogen atoms forming a carbon and an oxygen atom, with release of energy. This energy would heat up the remaining nitrogen enough to keep the reaction going until all nitrogen atoms were consumed. This was, however, quickly shown to be impossible, due to inverse Compton effect cooling of the fireball.[3] Nevertheless, the notion has persisted as a rumor for many years.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_nuclear_explosions

BTW ionizing radiation is one of four types alpha, beta, gamma, and neutron--

As for the difference between X-ray and Gamma radiation see

Quote:
The distinction between X-rays and gamma rays is somewhat arbitrary. The most frequent method of distinguishing between X- and gamma radiation is the basis of wavelength, with radiation shorter than some arbitrary wavelength, such as 10−11 m, defined as gamma rays.[6]

The electromagnetic radiation emitted by X-ray tubes generally has a longer wavelength than the radiation emitted by radioactive nuclei.[7] Historically, therefore, an alternative means of distinguishing between the two types of radiation has been by their origin: X-rays are emitted by electrons outside the nucleus, while gamma rays are emitted by the nucleus.[7][8][9][10]

There is overlap between the wavelength bands of photons emitted by electrons outside the nucleus, and photons emitted by the nucleus. Like all electromagnetic radiation, the properties of X-rays (or gamma rays) depend only on their wavelength and polarization (or, in a polychromatic beam, the distributions of wavelength and polarization).


Now lets look a light energy. From Freshmen Physics the energy of a photon is given by

E=h*nu

where h is Plank's constant and nu is wave number (recriprocal of wave length) so the energy of a nuclear generated gamma photon is much greater than electronically generated X-ray. Nevertheless the ionizing radiation energy (alpha, beta, gamma and neutron) of the detonation only accounts for 5% of the total energy.

BTW you are correct about the neutron device--neutron devises are fission/fusion devices. The fission provides the pressure and temperature to initiate a tritium-lithium interaction to produce a surplus of neutrons. But these neutrons are not produced by fission, they come from from fusion.

Mea Culpa.

Rap
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Dec, 2012 10:14 pm
@raprap,
raprap wrote:
Apparently you know more about Thermonuclear Physics then either Wikipedia, or Glasstone or Sesonske (a mentor from Purdue).


Perhaps.



Quote:
The energy released from a nuclear weapon detonated in the troposphere can be divided into four basic categories:[1]
Blast—40–50% of total energy
Thermal radiation—30–50% of total energy
Ionizing radiation—5% of total energy (more in a neutron bomb)
Residual radiation—5–10% of total energy
However, depending on the design of the weapon and the environment in which it is detonated the energy distributed to these categories can be increased or decreased.


They are not talking of the energy as it is coming from the bomb before coupling with the environment. They are referring to the energy as it is ultimately deposited (after coupling has transitioned many of those X-rays into heat and blast).



Quote:
The blast effect is created by the coupling of immense amounts of energy, spanning the electromagnetic spectrum, with the surroundings.


Slightly sloppy statement on their part. The energy may span the spectrum, but 80% of it is in the form of X-rays.



raprap wrote:
so the energy of a nuclear generated gamma photon is much greater than electronically generated X-ray.


On a per-photon basis, maybe.

But the bomb produces a LOT of X-rays.

So many X-rays that, despite their penetrating power through the air, they instantly strip all the electrons off all nearby atoms.

It is this stripping of electrons that causes the coupling, as once their electrons are stripped off, the atoms become ionized plasma.
raprap
 
  0  
Reply Wed 19 Dec, 2012 10:40 pm
@oralloy,
Still using the X-rays huh Oraboy?

If you looked at the second item, you'd have seen that 'x-ray' isn't the general term used for high energy photons generated by a critical incursion.

Rap
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Dec, 2012 10:54 pm
@raprap,
raprap wrote:
Still using the X-rays huh Oraboy?


You engage in name-calling because you are too stupid to say anything intelligent.
raprap
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Dec, 2012 10:57 pm
@oralloy,
& your inane and ill informed positions tend to rely on whining, Frenchy.

Rap
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Wed 19 Dec, 2012 11:28 pm
@raprap,
raprap wrote:
& your inane and ill informed positions tend to rely on whining, Frenchy.


You trash shouldn't run around falsely accusing your betters of your own ignorance.
raprap
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Dec, 2012 06:26 am
@oralloy,
Oraboy--I consider it entertaining to expose the severe misconceptions, ignorance and imagined insults of pompous blowhards. It has nothing to do with politics--

So Be Afraid, be very afraid, Frenchy. I'm gonna be watching.

Rap
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Dec, 2012 06:36 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
You engage in name-calling because you are too stupid to say anything intelligent.


Think about that statement, Oralloy! Give it some real thought--try not to be superficial--and you will see the humor in it.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Dec, 2012 06:37 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
You trash shouldn't run around falsely accusing your betters of your own ignorance.


That one also!
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Dec, 2012 07:39 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

parados wrote:
Why is that?


Because it doesn't.



parados wrote:
Are you saying women have a constitutional right to vote but white men don't?


No.

So you are disagreeing with your previous statement?

oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 20 Dec, 2012 11:22 pm
@raprap,
raprap wrote:
Oraboy


You engage in name-calling because you are too stupid to come up with anything intelligent.



raprap wrote:
severe misconceptions, ignorance and imagined insults of pompous blowhards.


You trash shouldn't run around falsely accusing your betters of your own ignorance.
0 Replies
 
 

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