5
   

Does "to be in control" mean "to get mastery/to be in power"?

 
 
Reply Mon 26 Nov, 2012 10:35 am


Context:

between our sinful selves and a holy God. Some commentators
focus on the idea of substitution—Christ dying in the place of all
of us who deserve God's judgment for our wrongdoings. Others
call it redemption—Christ paid the ultimate price to free us from
the bondage of sin, so that we could find God and rest in the
confidence that He no longer judges us by our actions, but sees
us as having been washed clean. Christians call this salvation
by grace. But for me, the crucifixion and resurrection also pro-
vided something else. My desire to draw close to God was
blocked by my own pride and sinfulness, which in turn was an
inevitable consequence of my own selfish desire to be in con-
trol
. Faithfulness to God required a kind of death of self-will, in
order to be reborn as a new creation.
 
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maxdancona
  Selected Answer
 
  4  
Reply Mon 26 Nov, 2012 10:46 am
@oristarA,
This is religious-speak, which is slightly different than normal English.

To be in control in this context means to control your own life. If you are in control that you are making your own decisions and choosing what you want to do for yourself. The writer suggests that it should be God controlling your life (and making decisions for you).

The phrase "be in control" can be used in non-religious contexts (with a slightly different meaning).

A child who is "out of control" is usually having a temper tantrum or is doing something really bad that you can't stop.

If you are "in control" when you are driving that you are perfectly able to steer the car. If you are "out of control" then you are skidding or going to fast. You can then "gain control" of the car again.

At my work, my boss was fired and there was a struggle for who had the power (authority). My new boss came and said "I am in control now" meaning that he now had the power and authority and that we had better do what he said.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Nov, 2012 07:10 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
This is religious-speak, which is slightly different than normal English.


Nonsense, Max. Right after you say that you give other examples from other areas of life.
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Mon 26 Nov, 2012 08:55 pm
@JTT,
I am simply pointing out that the religious sense is slightly different than the examples from other areas of life. The terminology being used in the text is from a specific brand of Evangelical Christianity and it has a meaning in this subculture that is different than in other contexts.

There are very few contexts (outside of religion) in which being the one making decisions for your own life is portrayed as a bad thing.
PUNKEY
 
  2  
Reply Mon 26 Nov, 2012 09:20 pm
Some religions require that you give control of your life to Jesus Christ in order to get to God. The "self-will" referred to is this control. It had to be given up in order to be "reborn."


0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Nov, 2012 11:44 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

This is religious-speak, which is slightly different than normal English.

To be in control in this context means to control your own life. If you are in control that you are making your own decisions and choosing what you want to do for yourself. The writer suggests that it should be God controlling your life (and making decisions for you).

The phrase "be in control" can be used in non-religious contexts (with a slightly different meaning).

A child who is "out of control" is usually having a temper tantrum or is doing something really bad that you can't stop.

If you are "in control" when you are driving that you are perfectly able to steer the car. If you are "out of control" then you are skidding or going to fast. You can then "gain control" of the car again.

At my work, my boss was fired and there was a struggle for who had the power (authority). My new boss came and said "I am in control now" meaning that he now had the power and authority and that we had better do what he said.


Informative!
Thank you.
The consistency, however, is not ideal.

0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Nov, 2012 11:50 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
My desire to draw close to God was blocked by my own pride and sinfulness, which in turn was an inevitable consequence of my own selfish desire to be in control. Faithfulness to God required a kind of death of self-will, in order to be reborn as a new creation.


Does "which" refer to "my own pride and sinfulness"? Or refer to "My desire to draw close to God was blocked by my own pride and sinfulness"?

maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Nov, 2012 06:55 am
@oristarA,
The key word there is "consequence".

The "pride and sinfulness" is a consequence of "ones own selfish desire".
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 27 Nov, 2012 07:57 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
I am simply pointing out that the religious sense is slightly different than the examples from other areas of life. The terminology being used in the text is from a specific brand of Evangelical Christianity and it has a meaning in this subculture that is different than in other contexts.


The specific 'god' references, yes, and of course, any area of life can use language to express what it wants to say. This is no different than engineers, psychologists, political scientists, historians, ... .

Quote:
There are very few contexts (outside of religion) in which being the one making decisions for your own life is portrayed as a bad thing.


Quote:
which in turn was an inevitable consequence of my own selfish desire to be in con-trol.


There doesn't have to be many - "very few" is more than enough.

But regardless, this,

"This is religious-speak, which is slightly different than normal English."

is inaccurate as regards what's normal English. It is perfectly normal English. You just happen to disagree with it.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 Nov, 2012 08:15 am
@JTT,
It is religious speak because without the religious understanding there is no way to find meaning in the phrase. Unless you understand that certain faiths state God should be in control of your life you will never understand the phrase in that context since there is nothing in the statement that clarifies it.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 Nov, 2012 11:00 am
@JTT,
Give me an example of a non-religious context of the use of "in control" to be a negative? Is there one?

The sentence "When I am in control I have problems." makes no sense outside of a religious context.

I certainly want my kids to be in control of themselves. I want to be in control when I am driving. The only time people want to be out of of control is in religion. (And as I said, being in control while driving or as your children don't have the same meaning as the evangelical Christian idiom).
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Nov, 2012 11:25 am
@maxdancona,
You're going beyond the question, though.

Oristar merely asked for clarification of the phrase "to be in control."

The phrase, in and of itself, is neutral.

It is also found in non-religious contexts, e.g. self-help writings, advice columns, etc.

maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 Nov, 2012 11:49 am
@InfraBlue,
The text posted is idiomatic. It has a meaning in this religious context that doesn't exist outside the religious context.

The claim has been made a couple of times now that this idiomatic use is seen in non-religious contexts. But I haven't seen any examples yet. So if you are going to make this claim, then support it.

Show me a non-religious example of this phrase with this idiomatic usage. I don't think you will find it outside of evangelical Christianity and a few evangelically influenced organizations such as AA.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Nov, 2012 01:19 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Parados: It is religious speak because without the religious understanding there is no way to find meaning in the phrase. Unless you understand that certain faiths state God should be in control of your life you will never understand the phrase in that context since there is nothing in the statement that clarifies it.


Quote:
Give me an example of a non-religious context of the use of "in control" to be a negative? Is there one?


You said there were few, Max. That means there are some. Actually, I find it astounding that a thinker like you [no sarcasm whatsoever] can't see how this could be used in any number of ways.

[I'm not so puzzled by Parados's lack of thinking Smile]

Quote:
The sentence "When I am in control I have problems." makes no sense outside of a religious context.


I just changed a few words, Max, and one without a religious context leaped into existence.

My desire to draw close to her was blocked by my own pride and selfishness, which in turn was an inevitable consequence of my own selfish desire to be in control.

InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Nov, 2012 01:46 pm
@maxdancona,

I just did a google search with that phrase, and these were the first three results:

1. How to Be in Control: 5 steps - wikiHow

2. How to Be In Control

3. Phobias and the Need to Be in Control | Psychology Today
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Nov, 2012 06:55 pm
@JTT,
Quote:

My desire to draw close to her was blocked by my own pride and selfishness, which in turn was an inevitable consequence of my own selfish desire to be in control.


Yeah, I have to accept this. I retract my argument.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Nov, 2012 10:32 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Quote:

My desire to draw close to her was blocked by my own pride and selfishness, which in turn was an inevitable consequence of my own selfish desire to be in control.


Yeah, I have to accept this. I retract my argument.


Eh? Wait a minute? Why have I observed that JTT has argued in a circle? "Selfishness is the selfish desire," of course. But it is not an argument; it is simply repeating itself. And JTT said "my own selfishness ... was an inevitable consequence of my own selfish desire."
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Nov, 2012 07:34 am
@oristarA,
Quote:
Eh? Wait a minute? Why have I observed that JTT has argued in a circle? "Selfishness is the selfish desire," of course. But it is not an argument; it is simply repeating itself. And JTT said "my own selfishness ... was an inevitable consequence of my own selfish desire."


The point being made, Ori, is that that particular language is/was not religion specific.

But regardless, it doesn't have to make perfect sense. There are people who deliver nonsense about many things, language included, but the point is they do so in grammatical English.

That repetition could be used for emphasis. You forgot the pertinent wording, "to be in control".

My desire to draw close to her was blocked by my own pride and sinfulness, which in turn was an inevitable consequence of my own selfish desire to be in control.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Nov, 2012 08:08 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:


My desire to draw close to her was blocked by my own pride and sinfulness, which in turn was an inevitable consequence of my own selfish desire to be in control.


Sinfulness? Is she as pure as Holy Mary, JTT? Wink Very Happy
0 Replies
 
 

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