The Passion of the Liberal

Umbagog wrote:

Craven, you assume much based on little.
I researched this guy on Abuzz for months for a little freelancing project of mine. After comparing thousands of entries under about 10 names, it became clear a single author was at work.

He posted something here that he also posted on Abuzz the same day, a couple of days ago, and his work smacks of all those fake names on Abuzz too, right down to Annie being his lady.

I do not make accusations lightly for that matter either. Whether or not you choose to believe is of course your right. But I do not lie, nor do I obfuscate. I seek to add greater dimension to ideas people are floating around, nothing more.

His denial here is identical to the denials he makes on Abuzz too. It's a complete match. I know I am not wrong. I'll come back with the two identical posts on different websites in a few minutes. I have literally dozens and dozens of examples, but I will not bore people with all this.

I told him to play nice on Abuzz or else I would react. He didn't play nice.

Have you ever thought Umb, that the person who posted there and I were using the same source for our articles .... namely http://www.townhall.com/

As to Ann Coulter being 'our lady', there are hundred, if not thousands, of men on the Right who think the world of Miss Coulter (I understand she gets a lot of marriage proposals) and love the thought of a strong, intelligent Conservative woman.

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Umbagog wrote:

Craven, you assume much based on little.

Nope, I don't.

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I researched this guy on Abuzz for months for a little freelancing project of mine. After comparing thousands of entries under about 10 names, it became clear a single author was at work.

Clear to you, but keep your divinations to yourself.

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I do not make accusations lightly for that matter either. Whether or not you choose to believe is of course your right. But I do not lie, nor do I obfuscate. I seek to add greater dimension to ideas people are floating around, nothing more.

I didn't accuse you of lying. I accuse you of guessing incorrectly.

Quote:

His denial here is identical to the denials he makes on Abuzz too. It's a complete match. I know I am not wrong. I'll come back with the two identical posts on different websites in a few minutes. I have literally dozens and dozens of examples, but I will not bore people with all this.

Then don't. It matters not a whit and your tenure here is contingient on you keeping these ad hominem games elsewhere.

In other words, these games are a quick way to get yourself banned here. It doesn't matter who is behind the words as long as the words play by the rules. Fedral, though I disagree with him on every ideological issue, always has and you are not.

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I told him to play nice on Abuzz or else I would react. He didn't play nice.

1) Whoever you told on Abuzz to play nice is under no obligation to heed you.
2) You are under the obligation to play nice here.

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She may be a conservative, but she is not intelligent..she rarely checks her facts and is a real liar and hatemonger...but everyone to their own opinion......

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I appreciate you comments Craven,

Although there are many on this board who's politics I disagree with on many levels, I have nearly always found the people of this board both courteous and intelligent in their arguments.

If I HAD posted similar (or even identical) postings on the other board, I would be MORE than happy to claim them as my own. If they reflected my own political views, I would be happy to back them up with my ownership. Alas I cannot, because they are not mine.

But now I am HUGELY intrigued...

Craven, can you tell me, if you don't mind, exactly HOW I get onto those boards without registering. I would REALLY like to see these posts attributed to me. (Or if someone is just copying MY posts and posting them under their own name.) Thanks to everyone.

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Damn. Abuzz is locking up at this time. A difficult site to navigate to say the least.

The evidence doesn't matter anyway. I am not here to play this game with him, as I have a ton of material all ready, and don't need any more.

I just wanted him to know I know it's him. Being new to this forum, I am assuming that it doesn't allow you to use bogus email addresses to create multiple names for yourself like is possible on Abuzz.com, so knowing who Fedral is here is all the input I need to follow his works. He's going to be a star someday, and he has no idea.

If you think people poke at him here, you should see how they denounce him on Abuzz. He's currently getting people zapped over there because he complains to Abuzz about their liberal, vulgar content. If you guys knew him like we know him on Abuzz, you wouldn't be defending him.

But by all means, do continue. And Fedral/Prag, you can rest assured I will not be spooking you like I was on Abuzz. I have all the information I need to know, and as stated all ready, people are on to your insanity here as well.

Just be thankful these sites are anonymous. You personally are going to make the right look very, very wrong in both shocking and hilarious ways when it hits publication. They won't know it's you, so they won't be able to witchhunt you into silence for making them look so bad.

Plus you can't go after me for plagarizing you either, since you are anonymous in a public forum, no real harm can be pinned on you.

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I don't "do" aAbuzz no more. I'm not sure what features are sill working.

But you bring up another possibility. Some trolls over there have made a habit of copying and pasting threads from here over there.

There are a lot of idiotic trolling and rivalry games going on over there and because this site and Abuzz have a lot of crossover we get dragged into it.

The policy here has always been that it doesn't matter what troll someone thinks they've connected a member here to. They are almost invariably wrong but even if they are right it doesn't matter.

What happens on Abuzz has no bearing on what happens here except in the minds of the people caught up in playing this game.

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Umbagog,

Like I said earlier, if you persist in these games you will simply not be able to use this site. Keep the Abuzz games at Abuzz.

Dispute Fedral's points if you wish, but your divinations as to his identity have no place here and they have nothing to do with what he posts.

It's called an ad hominem. Your inability to deal with the content of Fedral's post is making you wish to attack the person behind it.

Carp the post, heck, with articles like these it's not difficult.

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Ah, the same obfuscation of the issue, complete with a pipsqueak to back you up. It's played out on Abuzz a thousand times.

The duplication was not a copy from a site, it was homespun neocon lunacy obsessed with Clinton AND defending Bush, as is your wont in life.

Not to worry, you won't be hearing more of this anywhere on Able2Know. My research ended a long time ago.

Just letting you know you are transparant, as usual.

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Umbagog wrote:

Craven, you assume much based on little.
I researched this guy on Abuzz for months for a little freelancing project of mine. After comparing thousands of entries under about 10 names, it became clear a single author was at work.

Now exactly WHO is the paranoid one, taking months of your time to prove that someone might be posting ..... <gasp> ....... OPINIONS !!!

As I said before, if they had been mine, as you seem to believe that they reflect similar political opinions to me, I would have been proud to claim them.

Or do you think that I am the only Conservative in the world?

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So now I'm supposed to be his side-kick? LOL

Two peas in a pod, me 'n Fedral. Laughing

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Huh...well I don't really give a crap who was on Abuzz or not at one time or another. I'm pretty much apolitical, but Ann Coulter just really bugs me as IMO, she spreads more hateful opinion than fact. As for other conservative writers in her ilk, I'll take Debbie Schlussel.

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Craven de Kere wrote:

Two peas in a pod, me 'n Fedral.

OMFG !!

I HATE you so much Craven ! Very Happy

I was sitting here eating lunch and I laughed so hard when I read this that my monitor is covered in Cherry Coke!

Yes Umb, I think you just lost the LAST shred of credibility that you may have had with your last. Look back on both our histories and you will find Craven on the opposite sides of every issue (except maybe abortion and gay marriage )

I think you need to seek some serious therapy to deal with the paranoid persecution issues you seem to be having.

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I believe I did retort based on what was posted in my first post on this thread.

If he is there and I am there, and he is here and I am here, I am not allowed to comment?

What makes you judge and executioner, Craven? But like I said, you don't have to bunch your underwear up over this.

He knows I know, and that was the only goal here. Believe me, I have better things to do than follow him around. I just happened to notice he posts here on Able2know too.

If anything, I got some real insights into your character, Craven, and of course, I wasn't expecting that.

By the way, if you think you are good at line-item retorts, just wait until I start doing it.

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Umbagog wrote:

What makes you judge and executioner, Craven? But like I said, you don't have to bunch your underwear up over this.

Ummm.. Maybe it has something to do with him owning this site??

The rules are out there and you agreed to them when you signed up. You can either abide by them or not . The choice is yours.

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Umbagog wrote:

What makes you judge and executioner, Craven?

Well, I own the site and pay for all the costs out of my pocket so by law I have a right to be judge jury and executioner here.

But ultimately I don't care to hold this position and the mods will decide on these types of cases.

Quote:

If anything, I got some real insights into your character, Craven, and of course, I wasn't expecting that.

I bet they are as accurate as your other insights.

Quote:

By the way, if you think you are good at line-item retorts, just wait until I start doing it.

I can hardly wait. I'm not sure what you mean by line item retorts. "Line item" usually means a product type in a company's production.

I suspect you mean ad hominems or insults. I hope not, because like I said that'll just get you a quick boot. But if you mean sound intellectual rebuttals I welcome them with open arms.

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Fedral, that is so Prag it isn't even funny.

But enough of this. You know I know. And you have to be nice to me here. And by all means, rest assured, from hereonin, I will focus on your politics, not yourself. Telling Craven you hate him might not have been such a hot idea. By his suggestion, it only confirms what I've suspected about you all along, that you indeed hate yourself in a big way.

Able2Know: Please do not think you need to zap me or anything. Sometimes politics do indeed get personal. I promise to stick to the issues from hereonin. I've already been appreciated by a few people here, despite being a newbie. I'm here to paint the bigger picture when I can, not indulge in ad hominen attacks, as they are called.

Nobody is perfect.

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Craven, you make a lot of assumptions based on little information. You might want to reflect on that. The only thing I know for sure is that Fedral frequents Abuzz. As for the rest of it, speculation doesn't cost much.

So let me wrap this up then. I don't want to degenerate into this issue, as it isn't the goal here anyway. I like the idea that you have to play nice here and get to skip over all the brutalizing of human thought that takes place on Abuzz. It is THE reason why I started coming into this site.

MY final comment is this:

I would have rather not known you were the owner, Craven, as it might slant my perception of this site based on what you post on your own.

Nonetheless, it is part of the ongoing communications revolution in this country, so I am willing to give you a fair shake just for doing it in the first place.

A few months down the road I will offer any insights into any flaws this site may have. I don't criticize lightly, and most people find what I have to say is generally on the money and significant....when they choose to listen that is.

Calling yourself and Fedral as two peas in a pod is alarming actually, but I will decide that for myself. Then again, if Fedral says he hates you, you must have a fine, sensible mind that sees through conservative nonsense on a regular basis.

I have to withhold any judgment regarding this at this time, until such time comes that I have read enough content from both of you to make a decision.

Yes, I am irritating, yes I am controversial, and yes, there aren't many like me walking around. But you can be sure of one thing. I deal in both truth and reality. I have no fear of self-disclosure about my life or my politics, and I'm not afraid to speak my mind.

And of course, the neocons think I need to be medicated...

Please don't confuse me with a fool. I am not foolish.

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Pardon my play on words. A line item veto probably makes more sense. Any contract can be modified by removing or adding line items, i.e., sentences or clauses above and beyond the standard edition. I use the phrase, line item retort because people like to pick apart people's statements and analyze them without offering evidence to prove their judment is correct or not. Journalists routinely do this, with evidence to back up the judgments of course. It is also an effective means of getting at the logic of an argument or the lack therein. Unfortunately, people often use this technique as a manipulation device that tends to smear other ideas more than anything. I have a BA in journalism and have been doing contract work for years now, so I may have inadvertantly added some jargon into my discourse here. I assume too much, perhaps, that people understand what I am saying.

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Umbagig,

Fedral's politics revolt me. But it's important to remember that nobody has a lock on the truth.

I don't respect his positions but I respect him. He can have the same disrespect for my positions. Ultimately we think our positions are right (or we'd change them) and that the other's is wrong.

I'm sure he thinks my positions are as wrong as I think his are.

Politics is sensitive. His politics are what I consider backwards. But I need to recognize that politics is subjective and he has every right to consider my politics backwards as well.

So I'll frequently disagree with him vehemently. And I may well show nothing but contempt for his opinions. But I have to draw the line at him. For all I know he could be a great guy who has opinions I find detestable.

And he is, of course, free to hold the same contempt for my opinions.

One thing that sets us apart from many other sites is that we enforce the line between contempt for a message and contempt for the person.

It's easy to let contempt for ideology translate into contempt for the person but we try to avoid that here as it's counterproductive to discussion and usually just degenerates the exchanges into troll-fests.

And as an aside about jargon, in my world line item is another product I have to track in inventory.

I currently work in logictics and IT and would much rather be a journalist (along with a million other professions journalism was once the one I wanted to do). ;-)

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Umbagog wrote:

The only thing I know for sure is that Fedral frequents Abuzz. As for the rest of it, speculation doesn't cost much.

As I have said before, I have never been on Abuz, but you have intrigued the hell out of me with this post so I am going to have to check the site out.

Umbagog wrote:

Calling yourself and Fedral as two peas in a pod is alarming actually,

He was being sarcastic Umb. Its a word that I suggest you look up. The context that he used it only would make sense if you had read enough of his and my posts to understand the thought processes behind each of the posters.

Umbagog wrote:

Then again, if Fedral says he hates you, you must have a fine, sensible mind that sees through conservative nonsense on a regular basis.

Once again, you fail to understand the context the post was written in.

I posted ' I HATE you

' after Craven posted his peas in a pod comment because of the absurdity of your claims.
It is like when someone tells a joke that is so funny that you say 'You kill me' That doesn't mean the other person has stabbed or shot you and you are going to die... it means that you have posted something so funny that I could die laughing.

I will say this one more time Umb:

1) I am not this poster Prag or whatever his handle is.

2) I have never posted on this Abuz board you are ranting about.

3) If the poster sounds like me, perhaps he has been cut and pasting MY stuff.

4) The people here know I am a card carrying Right Wing Conservative Christian (I have never made any denials about my political stance) and if I HAD posted anything on another board with a similar political bent, I would be proud to claim those postings as my own.

5) Your insistence that I am this other poster is tantamount to calling me a liar.

Just keep in mind Umb, although I may have disagreed with many of the posters here, I have never, nor would ever post anything to hurt this board.

I like and respect the people here WAY too much.

Just my 2 cents (pre tax)

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