Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 10:38 am
@izzythepush,
Fortunately, it really doesn't matter much whether anyone outside of America understands the mindset of either Republicans or Democrats.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  4  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 10:40 am
@Miller,
Miller wrote:

JPB wrote:

. If there's only one payer then docs will take patients from that payer.


Many physicians, today, will not take health insurance ( medicare, medicaid, private health insurance ) as any form of payment. They will take only cash.


Bullshit. Provide evidence that any significant number of doctors refuse to take insurance.

In all my days, I've certainly never seen one of those, and I've never heard of it either.

Cycloptichorn
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 10:44 am
@ehBeth,
The potentially impending problem is not whether or not existing doctors will stop practising, but whether or not new doctors will enter the practise.

Considering the relatively extensive time and the huge financial cost associated with becoming a doctor, I wonder how many young people will decide this is a viable professional route.

Instead they can become lawyers and make even greater amounts of dough by suing the doctors still practising.

For some reason, we never seem to have too many lawyers.
Setanta
 
  5  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 10:46 am
After being discharged from the Army, where i worked for the Army Medical Corps, i worked for several years in the hospital industry. In the Army , we administered the "health insurance" program for retirees and dependents--basically, all costs were covered except elective surgeries, prescriptions (almost no one covered prescriptions in the early 1970s) and abortions (which army hospitals routinely provided, coding them "D and C" for dialation and curetage, which just describes how it was done). After getting out the Army, i found i had the best prospects for advancement in medical administration.

In years of handling the billing, insurance claims and payment documents of literally thousands of people, i never knew any hospital or clinic which would not accept an insurance assignment. It is common for insurers and medical services providers to negotiate fee schedules--but everybody plays the game. Miller, as usual, is spreading bullshit; as usual, she doesn't know what the hell she's talking about. Her partisan polemics are doing the talking, and they're talking out of her ass.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  4  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 10:47 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Actually, we do - there are as many students currently in law school right now, as practicing lawyers in the general public. There's a glut in the market and enrollment in law schools are dropping the last few years, as people realize how hard it is to get a job that pays off the large debt load associated with the education.

Cycloptichorn
DrewDad
 
  4  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 10:49 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Split, essentially down the middle, with either side truly not being able to understand the mindset of the other, and both thinking their's is based on obvious common sense.

That certainly sounds like a projection. I've had enough conversations with my MIL and FIL to know why they think the way they do. I disagree, but I understand.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 10:52 am
@Cycloptichorn,
The California university system will also implement higher fees for those who wish to take more courses than is required for their bachelors degree. I think graduate students will be paying something like $372 per unit.

It's getting very expensive to earn a college degree today, and Obama's plan to reduce interest rates on college loans is a much better solution than Romney's "borrow from your parents."

Many students will not be able to finance their college education, and many will drop out. A sad commentary on our educational system.

Conservatives prefer to give bigger tax breaks to the wealthy.
IRFRANK
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 10:54 am
@DrewDad,
Quote:
That certainly sounds like a projection. I've had enough conversations with my MIL and FIL to know why they think the way they do. I disagree, but I understand


Some people are irrational and some aren't.

The qty that are irrational is disturbing.

0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 11:01 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

The potentially impending problem is not whether or not existing doctors will stop practising, but whether or not new doctors will enter the practise.

UK physicians per 1000: 2.2
US physicians per 1000: 2.3

Doesn't seem to be much of an issue.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Considering the relatively extensive time and the huge financial cost associated with becoming a doctor, I wonder how many young people will decide this is a viable professional route.

Perhaps we should make it easier to become a doctor, then.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Instead they can become lawyers and make even greater amounts of dough by suing the doctors still practising.

For some reason, we never seem to have too many lawyers.

Good lord. We have lots and lots of people with law degrees who don't (and can't) make a living as lawyers.

You're divorced from reality, as always.
tsarstepan
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 11:11 am
@DrewDad,
I think it's funny that those people, who are claiming a mass exodus of doctors from the US health system because of Obamacare if not our shores, are failing to recognize that there are two major reasons (they're not the only reasons but they're the biggest) why doctors become doctors.

1. Yes. Financial security and a great standard of living one can potentially get from becoming a medical professional.
2. A certain mindset to help others. This option the critics of Obamacare are glossing over. If you don't like helping others, then the medical profession may not be right for you. AKA some people become doctors to help heal people.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 11:13 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Typical Cyclo bluster, but I was interested in seeing if I could find the answer and so I googled it.

I didn't spend a lot of time with this, but found the following:

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/stories/2012/august/06/third-of-medicaid-doctors-say-no-new-patients.aspx

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Sick-of-status-quo-doctors-test-no-insurance-3500678.php

http://www.dpmafoundation.org/physician-attitudes-on-medicine.html

The second link directly address the question and the answer is uncertain. It appears it's about 1,000. Which is a surprising in the fact that Cyclo, in all his days, has apparently had dealings with virtually every doctor in America and never ran into any that won't accept insurance.

The question is whether or not this is a growing trend. If this approach is being tried in San Antonio, we can be certain that it is being tried elsewhere.

The third link is, as one might expect, contraversial and has factored in the debate about Obamacare with it's opponents citing it as evidence of the ills yet to come, and its supporters ridiculing the survey.

The first link, I believe, tells a darker tale.

If more and more practising doctors are not accepting new medicare patients and the number of patients on medicare is growing, there's a train wreck up ahead.

At some point the government may step in and tell doctors they can't refuse new medicare patients. That will be interesting.

In any case, it's a bit of whistling past the graveyard to assert that Obamacare is not going to have some undesirable (unexpected or otherwise) consequences, but again, we won't have to wait that long to find out.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 11:14 am
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

The potentially impending problem is not whether or not existing doctors will stop practising, but whether or not new doctors will enter the practise.

UK physicians per 1000: 2.2
US physicians per 1000: 2.3
According to most recent world bank data it's US 2.4, UK 2.7 (Germany 3.6 ... and we think, we don't have enough)
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 11:16 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
About a thousand, eh?

Per the WSJ -

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304506904575180331528424238.html

In 2010 there were over 352,000 primary-care physicians in America.

Do you think 1/352nd is a significant number? Or even 'many?' I doubt anyone would agree with that proposition.

Cycloptichorn
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 11:18 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I must have found old data.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 11:21 am
@DrewDad,
Everything you said is true based on FACTS; something Finn fails to understand.
Lawyers are dime a dozen, and many are dropping out of law school - or not even bothering to enter law school, knowing that graduates have difficulty finding jobs.

Proof:
http://i49.tinypic.com/ogzbz6.jpg
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 11:21 am
@Cycloptichorn,
If you would read what I wrote instead of rushing to type a rebuttal, you would have seen that I didn't suggest the number (which is difficult to determine and could be less or more) is many, and that the only question in this area is whether or not it a growing trend. I don't have the answer to that question, but perhaps you with your intimate knowledge of all the doctors in this country do. If so, please enlighten us.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 11:23 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Yes, the number can be determined. You're wrong on most counts! LOL

Law and medical schools keep track.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 11:26 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Yes, the number can be determined. You're wrong on most counts! LOL

Law and medical schools keep track.


Law and medical schools keep track of how many doctors refuse to accept insurance? That's news to me.

Another A2K premature ejaculator.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 11:33 am
@DrewDad,
The OECD data are the latest (released in June) with really a lot of data .....
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 11:37 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Are you off your meds? Mr. Green Drunk Drunk Drunk

http://i48.tinypic.com/2w4wns5.jpg
0 Replies
 
 

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