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Romney Repeats Conservative cop-out on the Middle East conflict

 
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2012 07:44 am
@oralloy,
And also notice the number of Israelis killed are only about 10% of the Palestinians killed. But does 10% only count when you want it to?
parados
 
  2  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2012 07:46 am
@oralloy,
Quote:

Meh. Even assuming that the cases aren't fabricated, that's just what happens when the Palestinians insist on trying to murder innocent people.

And now you are arguing that the Israelis are manufacturing Palestinian deaths. If reality doesn't fit just argue that the IDF is making up numbers because they want a high body count.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2012 07:58 am
I suppose in your world this was justified oralloy because Israeli civilians would never do such a thing unprovoked.

http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART2/397/345.html

translation here -
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151056840034001&set=a.280229114000.142825.723734000&type=1&theater

And then of course, this didn't happen in your world
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/three-israeli-youths-arrested-in-firebombing-of-palestinian-taxi/2012/08/26/d2489f32-ef9f-11e1-892d-bc92fee603a7_story.html
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2012 08:09 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
parados wrote:
oralloy wrote:
The only deviation from reality is that you left out that many of the supposed Palestinian deaths are fictitious.


Sure they do... just because you say so but present no evidence of it.


I don't keep a ready list of cites to all the times the Palestinians have been busted fabricating death claims.

And their lies have been busted so many times that I shouldn't need to.


There is one case that sticks in my mind because it was so funny.

The Palestinians had mined the beach in Gaza, presumably in the silly belief that it would be an impediment to an Israeli invasion, and some silly Palestinian family had a picnic on the beach.

BOOM!

The only survivor was a 10-year-old girl, and when a European TV crew arrived on the scene, she went up to them and talked them into filming a fake scene where she pretended to be running around looking for her father, only to discover his corpse.

Fake scene all filmed, the entire event was portrayed as an Israeli artillery shell having killed the family.


Can you imagine how deranged the Palestinians have to be to result in a situation where the only thing a 10-year-old girl can think of after her family Darwins themselves, is how to spin it all into a lie about Israel?
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2012 08:22 am
@parados,
parados wrote:
And also notice the number of Israelis killed are only about 10% of the Palestinians killed. But does 10% only count when you want it to?


Is there some sort of significance to that 10% figure?

Ideally the number of Israelis killed would be 0%, with 100% of the deaths on the Palestinian side of the table. That would indicate perfect success in self defense.

But I suppose perfection is not attainable. Israel does the best they can to prevent the Palestinians from murdering people.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2012 08:25 am
@parados,
parados wrote:
oralloy wrote:
Meh. Even assuming that the cases aren't fabricated, that's just what happens when the Palestinians insist on trying to murder innocent people.


And now you are arguing that the Israelis are manufacturing Palestinian deaths.


No. If they were fabricated, the fabricators are almost certainly Palestinians.



parados wrote:
If reality doesn't fit


Reality fits just fine.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2012 08:36 am
@parados,


I wouldn't say justified. But I can certainly understand the frustration that the Israelis feel. It must be tiresome to have Palestinians always trying to murder you (and everyone you care about).
parados
 
  2  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2012 12:57 pm
@oralloy,
So Israelis kill almost 10 times as many Palestinians but the Isrelis are justified to kill Palestinians because the Palestinians are always trying to kill the Israelis.

Talk about cognitive dissonance on your part oralloy.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2012 01:04 pm
@oralloy,
It's amazing how you change facts in that case.

A case in which the IDF came to one conclusion and independent human rights investigations came to the opposite conclusion. And yet you want to claim a 10 year old told a TV crew to film her acting as if it was Israelis? You are despicable oralloy.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2012 06:36 pm
@izzythepush,
No it doesn't but what evidence is there that the Palestinians have done so?
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2012 08:36 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
So Israelis kill almost 10 times as many Palestinians but the Isrelis are justified to kill Palestinians because the Palestinians are always trying to kill the Israelis.


You left out the fact that the Israelis are killing in self defense.



parados wrote:
Talk about cognitive dissonance on your part oralloy.


No cognitive dissonance. Self defense is a legitimate act.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2012 08:37 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
It's amazing how you change facts in that case.


I've changed no facts.



parados wrote:
A case in which the IDF came to one conclusion and independent human rights investigations came to the opposite conclusion. And yet you want to claim a 10 year old told a TV crew to film her acting as if it was Israelis?


Almost. What she told the TV crew to do was: film her pretending to search for her dad and then pretending to collapse in grief when she found his body.

She did tell them she wanted it to be used against Israel, but I'm not sure there was really a way for her to "act" like it was Israel. It wasn't like she was reciting any lines for the camera (other than her fake wail of grief of course).

I'm sure that if she had thought of a way to blame Israel in her acting, she'd have done so however.



parados wrote:
You are despicable oralloy.


Nah. The truth is despicable. I'm just the messenger.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Sep, 2012 01:26 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
There's plenty of evidence of pragmatism, the current Egyptian president is a fine example. Hamas are seeing him as a role model.

At the end of the day, the real barrier to peace is the illegal construction of settlements on occupied land. The settlers are the real fanatics.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 27 Sep, 2012 02:00 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
There's plenty of evidence of pragmatism, the current Egyptian president is a fine example.


He's a lunatic who's going to start a war with Israel. Hardly pragmatic.

But on the plus side, at least Israel will be able to rebuild the settlements when they recapture the Sinai.



izzythepush wrote:
Hamas are seeing him as a role model.


I'm not surprised.



izzythepush wrote:
At the end of the day, the real barrier to peace is the illegal construction of settlements on occupied land.


Liar. The only barrier to peace is the fact that the Palestinians refuse to make peace.

And there is nothing illegal about the settlement construction. Most of it is west of the separation fence, on land that Israel will be annexing.



izzythepush wrote:
The settlers are the real fanatics.


The settlers are moderates compared to you.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Sep, 2012 09:19 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
Almost. What she told the TV crew to do was: film her pretending to search for her dad and then pretending to collapse in grief when she found his body.

I love how you present speculative arguments as if they were facts.
You claimed it was a European film crew. I can find no evidence of such a crew. The TV cameraman that shot the famous clip was from a Ramattan. Then you claimed she told the crew to film her while she was pretending to search. There is no eye witness account I can find to support that claim. There is speculation by a German newspaper but that is hardly factual. The German paper makes some factual errors when you see the video compared to their claims.

Quote:
other than her fake wail of grief of course)

Right. Because in your view Palestinians have no feelings and couldn't actually have real grief if a 12 year old is next to her dead father.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jun/16/israel
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2012 10:14 am
@izzythepush,
I didn't know Morsi was palestinian, and his pragmatism has yet to be demonstrated thus far.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2012 11:13 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
You're grasping at straws to suggest I said Morsi was Palestinian, either that or you have difficulties with basic English.

As for Morsi's pragmatism, he's continued the peace treaty with Israel, sent troops to deal with terrorists in Sinai, and been quite clear in his condemnations of both Syria and Iran.

I know facts don't mean much to you, if they did you wouldn't believe Romney would make a good president.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2012 02:10 pm
@izzythepush,
Izzy you seem to forget that this forum provides a running history of any exchange:

You wrote:
I think the desire to obliterate would be pretty high, that doesn't mean that people can't put pragmatism over the desire for revenge


I wrote:
No it doesn't but what evidence is there that the Palestinians have done so?


You wrote:
There's plenty of evidence of pragmatism, the current Egyptian president is a fine example. Hamas are seeing him as a role model.


izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2012 05:08 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
I think you're having some sort of a breakdown.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Oct, 2012 08:55 pm
@oralloy,
Jesus, you're a nut case, Oralboy.

How are you doing at Minesweeper these days?
0 Replies
 
 

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